{
  "id": 566534,
  "title": "paper: Has AlphaFold 3 reached its success for RNAs?",
  "url": "/competitions/stanford-rna-3d-folding/discussion/566534",
  "author_name": "",
  "post_date": "2025-03-06T00:39:13.919095200Z",
  "votes": 29,
  "comment_count": 4,
  "views": 0,
  "content": "<p><a href=\"https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.06.13.598780v1.full.pdf\" target=\"_blank\">https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.06.13.598780v1.full.pdf</a><br>\nHas AlphaFold 3 reached its success for RNAs? - 2024</p>\n<p>a good paper:</p>\n<ul>\n<li>gives list SOTA methods</li>\n<li>gives some public database</li>\n<li>discuss limitations and problems of current SOTA<br>\n<img src=\"https://www.googleapis.com/download/storage/v1/b/kaggle-forum-message-attachments/o/inbox%2F113660%2F86fb50733cfe403269f890516f09a7bf%2FSelection_999(7739).png?generation=1741221549647530&amp;alt=media\" alt=\"\"></li>\n</ul>\n<p><img src=\"https://www.googleapis.com/download/storage/v1/b/kaggle-forum-message-attachments/o/inbox%2F113660%2F572406e24bbe7acba69a5b98e6bcaeda%2FSelection_999(7740).png?generation=1741221636244020&amp;alt=media\" alt=\"\"><br>\nalphafold3 results (TM-score)</p>",
  "messages": [
    {
      "id": "3141854",
      "postDate": "03/06/2025 00:39:13",
      "content": "<p><a href=\"https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.06.13.598780v1.full.pdf\" target=\"_blank\">https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.06.13.598780v1.full.pdf</a><br>\nHas AlphaFold 3 reached its success for RNAs? - 2024</p>\n<p>a good paper:</p>\n<ul>\n<li>gives list SOTA methods</li>\n<li>gives some public database</li>\n<li>discuss limitations and problems of current SOTA<br>\n<img src=\"https://www.googleapis.com/download/storage/v1/b/kaggle-forum-message-attachments/o/inbox%2F113660%2F86fb50733cfe403269f890516f09a7bf%2FSelection_999(7739).png?generation=1741221549647530&amp;alt=media\" alt=\"\"></li>\n</ul>\n<p><img src=\"https://www.googleapis.com/download/storage/v1/b/kaggle-forum-message-attachments/o/inbox%2F113660%2F572406e24bbe7acba69a5b98e6bcaeda%2FSelection_999(7740).png?generation=1741221636244020&amp;alt=media\" alt=\"\"><br>\nalphafold3 results (TM-score)</p>",
      "rawMarkdown": "https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.06.13.598780v1.full.pdf\nHas AlphaFold 3 reached its success for RNAs? - 2024\n\na good paper:\n- gives list SOTA methods\n- gives some public database\n- discuss limitations and problems of current SOTA\n![](https://www.googleapis.com/download/storage/v1/b/kaggle-forum-message-attachments/o/inbox%2F113660%2F86fb50733cfe403269f890516f09a7bf%2FSelection_999(7739).png?generation=1741221549647530&alt=media)\n\n![](https://www.googleapis.com/download/storage/v1/b/kaggle-forum-message-attachments/o/inbox%2F113660%2F572406e24bbe7acba69a5b98e6bcaeda%2FSelection_999(7740).png?generation=1741221636244020&alt=media)\nalphafold3 results (TM-score)",
      "votes": null
    },
    {
      "id": "3142786",
      "postDate": "03/06/2025 17:05:52",
      "content": "<p>Thanks for the paper <a href=\"https://www.kaggle.com/hengck23\" target=\"_blank\">@hengck23</a> <br>\nThe performance seems to depend (a lot) on the test dataset. Is it due to leakage in the test set of some benchmarks ? AF3 seems the way-to-go though, based on the 1st plot, as it performs on-par or better than the 9 other methods</p>",
      "rawMarkdown": "Thanks for the paper @hengck23 \nThe performance seems to depend (a lot) on the test dataset. Is it due to leakage in the test set of some benchmarks ? AF3 seems the way-to-go though, based on the 1st plot, as it performs on-par or better than the 9 other methods",
      "votes": null
    },
    {
      "id": "3145225",
      "postDate": "03/09/2025 14:39:04",
      "content": "<p>Thank you so much!</p>",
      "rawMarkdown": "Thank you so much!",
      "votes": null
    },
    {
      "id": "3147217",
      "postDate": "03/11/2025 19:10:22",
      "content": "<p><a href=\"https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1012715\" target=\"_blank\">https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1012715</a><br>\nSystematic benchmarking of deep-learning methods for tertiary RNA structure prediction</p>\n<p><a href=\"https://www.cell.com/structure/pdf/S0969-2126(24)00332-0.pdf\" target=\"_blank\">https://www.cell.com/structure/pdf/S0969-2126(24)00332-0.pdf</a><br>\nAdvances in the field of RNA 3D structure prediction and modeling, with purely theoretical approaches, and with the use of experimental data</p>",
      "rawMarkdown": "https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1012715\nSystematic benchmarking of deep-learning methods for tertiary RNA structure prediction\n\nhttps://www.cell.com/structure/pdf/S0969-2126(24)00332-0.pdf\nAdvances in the field of RNA 3D structure prediction and modeling, with purely theoretical approaches, and with the use of experimental data",
      "votes": null
    },
    {
      "id": "3150382",
      "postDate": "03/15/2025 12:51:12",
      "content": "<p>Thanks <a href=\"https://www.kaggle.com/hengck23\" target=\"_blank\">@hengck23</a>! The conclusion of that paper is interesting</p>\n<blockquote>\n  <p>Its new architecture allows the prediction of wide molecules but remains limited and hardly predicts non-Watson-Crick interactions. The predictions of AlphaFold 3 remain of competitive quality, as it outperforms most of the existing solutions and returns more physically plausible structures than ab initio methods. It outclasses existing deep-learning approaches but does not generalize well on orphan structures or long RNAs. It also returns predictions very quickly compared to ab initio or current template-based approaches. The prediction of atom coordinates instead of base frames in AlphaFold 2 allows the extension of predictions for a wide range of molecules but prevents the generalisation of RNAspecific interactions. The lack of data is also a limitation that prevents the robustness of deep learning methods in general, and so is AlphaFold 3.</p>\n</blockquote>\n<p>Takeaways:</p>\n<ul>\n<li>AlphaFold 3 obviously excels for proteins but still falls short for RNAs, especially in non-Watson-Crick interactions.</li>\n<li>Outperforms most existing solutions and generates more physically plausible structures than ab initio methods.</li>\n<li>Struggles with orphan structures and longer RNAs.</li>\n<li>Predicting atom coordinates instead of base frames broadens applicability yet hinders capturing RNA-specific interactions.</li>\n<li>The general lack of RNA-specific data remains a significant hurdle for AlphaFold3 (and any robust deep learning predictions…)</li>\n</ul>",
      "rawMarkdown": "Thanks @hengck23! The conclusion of that paper is interesting\n> Its new architecture allows the prediction of wide molecules but remains limited and hardly predicts non-Watson-Crick interactions. The predictions of AlphaFold 3 remain of competitive quality, as it outperforms most of the existing solutions and returns more physically plausible structures than ab initio methods. It outclasses existing deep-learning approaches but does not generalize well on orphan structures or long RNAs. It also returns predictions very quickly compared to ab initio or current template-based approaches. The prediction of atom coordinates instead of base frames in AlphaFold 2 allows the extension of predictions for a wide range of molecules but prevents the generalisation of RNAspecific interactions. The lack of data is also a limitation that prevents the robustness of deep learning methods in general, and so is AlphaFold 3.\n\nTakeaways:\n- AlphaFold 3 obviously excels for proteins but still falls short for RNAs, especially in non-Watson-Crick interactions.\n- Outperforms most existing solutions and generates more physically plausible structures than ab initio methods.\n- Struggles with orphan structures and longer RNAs.\n- Predicting atom coordinates instead of base frames broadens applicability yet hinders capturing RNA-specific interactions.\n- The general lack of RNA-specific data remains a significant hurdle for AlphaFold3 (and any robust deep learning predictions...)",
      "votes": null
    }
  ],
  "comments": [
    {
      "id": 3142786,
      "author_name": "louisstefanuto",
      "author_url": "",
      "post_date": "03/06/2025 17:05:52",
      "content": "<p>Thanks for the paper <a href=\"https://www.kaggle.com/hengck23\" target=\"_blank\">@hengck23</a> <br>\nThe performance seems to depend (a lot) on the test dataset. Is it due to leakage in the test set of some benchmarks ? AF3 seems the way-to-go though, based on the 1st plot, as it performs on-par or better than the 9 other methods</p>",
      "votes": null,
      "replies": []
    },
    {
      "id": 3145225,
      "author_name": "carlosenrique84",
      "author_url": "",
      "post_date": "03/09/2025 14:39:04",
      "content": "<p>Thank you so much!</p>",
      "votes": null,
      "replies": []
    },
    {
      "id": 3147217,
      "author_name": "hengck23",
      "author_url": "",
      "post_date": "03/11/2025 19:10:22",
      "content": "<p><a href=\"https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1012715\" target=\"_blank\">https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1012715</a><br>\nSystematic benchmarking of deep-learning methods for tertiary RNA structure prediction</p>\n<p><a href=\"https://www.cell.com/structure/pdf/S0969-2126(24)00332-0.pdf\" target=\"_blank\">https://www.cell.com/structure/pdf/S0969-2126(24)00332-0.pdf</a><br>\nAdvances in the field of RNA 3D structure prediction and modeling, with purely theoretical approaches, and with the use of experimental data</p>",
      "votes": null,
      "replies": []
    },
    {
      "id": 3150382,
      "author_name": "robotmf",
      "author_url": "",
      "post_date": "03/15/2025 12:51:12",
      "content": "<p>Thanks <a href=\"https://www.kaggle.com/hengck23\" target=\"_blank\">@hengck23</a>! The conclusion of that paper is interesting</p>\n<blockquote>\n  <p>Its new architecture allows the prediction of wide molecules but remains limited and hardly predicts non-Watson-Crick interactions. The predictions of AlphaFold 3 remain of competitive quality, as it outperforms most of the existing solutions and returns more physically plausible structures than ab initio methods. It outclasses existing deep-learning approaches but does not generalize well on orphan structures or long RNAs. It also returns predictions very quickly compared to ab initio or current template-based approaches. The prediction of atom coordinates instead of base frames in AlphaFold 2 allows the extension of predictions for a wide range of molecules but prevents the generalisation of RNAspecific interactions. The lack of data is also a limitation that prevents the robustness of deep learning methods in general, and so is AlphaFold 3.</p>\n</blockquote>\n<p>Takeaways:</p>\n<ul>\n<li>AlphaFold 3 obviously excels for proteins but still falls short for RNAs, especially in non-Watson-Crick interactions.</li>\n<li>Outperforms most existing solutions and generates more physically plausible structures than ab initio methods.</li>\n<li>Struggles with orphan structures and longer RNAs.</li>\n<li>Predicting atom coordinates instead of base frames broadens applicability yet hinders capturing RNA-specific interactions.</li>\n<li>The general lack of RNA-specific data remains a significant hurdle for AlphaFold3 (and any robust deep learning predictions…)</li>\n</ul>",
      "votes": null,
      "replies": []
    }
  ],
  "raw_markdown_by_id": {
    "3141854": "https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.06.13.598780v1.full.pdf\nHas AlphaFold 3 reached its success for RNAs? - 2024\n\na good paper:\n- gives list SOTA methods\n- gives some public database\n- discuss limitations and problems of current SOTA\n![](https://www.googleapis.com/download/storage/v1/b/kaggle-forum-message-attachments/o/inbox%2F113660%2F86fb50733cfe403269f890516f09a7bf%2FSelection_999(7739).png?generation=1741221549647530&alt=media)\n\n![](https://www.googleapis.com/download/storage/v1/b/kaggle-forum-message-attachments/o/inbox%2F113660%2F572406e24bbe7acba69a5b98e6bcaeda%2FSelection_999(7740).png?generation=1741221636244020&alt=media)\nalphafold3 results (TM-score)",
    "3142786": "Thanks for the paper @hengck23 \nThe performance seems to depend (a lot) on the test dataset. Is it due to leakage in the test set of some benchmarks ? AF3 seems the way-to-go though, based on the 1st plot, as it performs on-par or better than the 9 other methods",
    "3145225": "Thank you so much!",
    "3147217": "https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1012715\nSystematic benchmarking of deep-learning methods for tertiary RNA structure prediction\n\nhttps://www.cell.com/structure/pdf/S0969-2126(24)00332-0.pdf\nAdvances in the field of RNA 3D structure prediction and modeling, with purely theoretical approaches, and with the use of experimental data",
    "3150382": "Thanks @hengck23! The conclusion of that paper is interesting\n> Its new architecture allows the prediction of wide molecules but remains limited and hardly predicts non-Watson-Crick interactions. The predictions of AlphaFold 3 remain of competitive quality, as it outperforms most of the existing solutions and returns more physically plausible structures than ab initio methods. It outclasses existing deep-learning approaches but does not generalize well on orphan structures or long RNAs. It also returns predictions very quickly compared to ab initio or current template-based approaches. The prediction of atom coordinates instead of base frames in AlphaFold 2 allows the extension of predictions for a wide range of molecules but prevents the generalisation of RNAspecific interactions. The lack of data is also a limitation that prevents the robustness of deep learning methods in general, and so is AlphaFold 3.\n\nTakeaways:\n- AlphaFold 3 obviously excels for proteins but still falls short for RNAs, especially in non-Watson-Crick interactions.\n- Outperforms most existing solutions and generates more physically plausible structures than ab initio methods.\n- Struggles with orphan structures and longer RNAs.\n- Predicting atom coordinates instead of base frames broadens applicability yet hinders capturing RNA-specific interactions.\n- The general lack of RNA-specific data remains a significant hurdle for AlphaFold3 (and any robust deep learning predictions...)"
  },
  "source": "meta"
}