It is almost sad that we are discussing issues like cheating and downvoting rather than the insights from the competition. Also, I don't/won't have any beef with anyone who doesn't agree with my views.
\n\nAlmost any time a leak occurs or cheating is exposed on kaggle, some people ask for a downvote button. And it might be good to punish cheaters but it will also be used by people who just climb the ranks of kaggle without doing much work. They would read kernels, use content from those kernels, implement that in their own and then ask for upvotes without upvoting or commenting on the work that helped them. What happens if they can anonymously downvote stuff? Any day a person gains a rank over them, they might downvote all his kernels. Some people might do this for fun.
\n\nA novice comes to this platform and he/she might use the upvote-downvote buttons the same way he/she uses the facebook react buttons. Let's not reduce valuable scripts of codes to memes.
\n\nI have mentioned this incident like thrice but I will mention it again. During one competition early this year when cheaters were exposed, I wrote a post about them rebuking them for their actions and telling them the consequences. What followed was mass downvoting of all my posts ever on this platform because I spoke against cheating. I don't care if anyone downvotes my posts but if someone downvotes my kernels because I called them out for fraud/cheating, this is injustice.
\n\nI am sure that most people advocating for downvotes live in democratic countries. Maybe, you guys haven't heard of this principle of judiciary of democratic countries but let me enlighten you: In certain situations, even if the judicial system fails to correctly punish 10 criminals, it can be reluctantly accepted but under no circumstance, I say under no circumstance should an innocent person be punished
\n\nAlso, it clearly destroys the user experience because no hardworking person is happy to see downvotes without any reason. There will be people who will downvote a kernel because the code used Logistic Regression and not Naive Bayes.
\n\nPlease don't compare kaggle to social networks like Facebook and Youtube to justify downvoting when it resembles GitHub and Linkedin more. Guess what, these platforms don't have downvote buttons. Downvotes or any kind of unjustified criticism(just talking about some cases, not all) is the destroyer of the open source ecosystem.\nAt the same time, we can't deny the presence of ungrateful users on this platform and their unfair practices. The best way to tackle this is to boycott such users and report them in dire cases. A report button can be very effective but it will eventually tamper with the moral compass because when you open source any valuable code, you can definitely expect people to use it but you can't expect them all to be grateful for it. There is no legal action you can take against them. Downvoting doesn't change morals.
\n\nThis world is full of people who want to watch this world burn. Let's not give them lighters.
", "messages": [ { "id": 421855, "postDate": "2018-11-15T13:56:09.453Z", "content": "Well. These are just upvotes... if some people can use questionable ways to get votes, why not let other people to downvote them? or downvote medal kernels, appearing just before the deadline?
\n\nGetting medals in kernels/discussions is much easier that in competitions anyway.
", "rawMarkdown": "Well. These are just upvotes... if some people can use questionable ways to get votes, why not let other people to downvote them? or downvote medal kernels, appearing just before the deadline?\n\nGetting medals in kernels/discussions is much easier that in competitions anyway.", "votes": 8, "replies": [ { "id": 421869, "postDate": "2018-11-15T14:16:19.343Z", "content": "Can you guarantee that downvotes will happen only because someone did something questionable. Think of this, a beginner publishes a kernel in hope to get feedback. Another novice downvotes coz he didn't find it good enough. No feedback and 2 downvotes are enough to discourage a beginner. Sometimes even if the work is subpar, I upvote some kernels by beginners and write good comments to encourage them. This is called community building. Something that is lacking due to cheaters.
", "rawMarkdown": "Can you guarantee that downvotes will happen only because someone did something questionable. Think of this, a beginner publishes a kernel in hope to get feedback. Another novice downvotes coz he didn't find it good enough. No feedback and 2 downvotes are enough to discourage a beginner. Sometimes even if the work is subpar, I upvote some kernels by beginners and write good comments to encourage them. This is called community building. Something that is lacking due to cheaters.", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 421881, "postDate": "2018-11-15T14:33:25.983Z", "content": "Well, I can't. I suppose I may be callous or harsh, but I think that if a person is discouraged after a first like, maybe he isn't really into DS.\nI'm all for helping and encouraging people (I often help myself), but they should have an internal strength, discipline and motivation. :)
\n\nAnyway, I agree that downvotes can be abused and their possible implementation should be carefully considered and evaluated.
", "rawMarkdown": "Well, I can't. I suppose I may be callous or harsh, but I think that if a person is discouraged after a first like, maybe he isn't really into DS.\nI'm all for helping and encouraging people (I often help myself), but they should have an internal strength, discipline and motivation. :)\n\nAnyway, I agree that downvotes can be abused and their possible implementation should be carefully considered and evaluated.", "votes": 2 }, { "id": 421984, "postDate": "2018-11-15T16:33:56.987Z", "content": "Most people don't handle criticism like I am handling right now. It is nice to see the real face of kaggle.
", "rawMarkdown": "Most people don't handle criticism like I am handling right now. It is nice to see the real face of kaggle.", "votes": -1 } ] }, { "id": 421868, "postDate": "2018-11-15T14:14:25.567Z", "content": "\n", "rawMarkdown": ">This world is full of people who want to watch this world burn. Let's not give them lighters\nWith great power of dislike button comes great responsibility", "votes": 7, "replies": [ { "id": 421870, "postDate": "2018-11-15T14:17:00.453Z", "content": "This world is full of people who want to watch this world burn. Let's not give them lighters\n With great power of dislike button comes great responsibility
\n
Admit it. My line was better.
", "rawMarkdown": "Admit it. My line was better.", "votes": -12 } ] }, { "id": 421856, "postDate": "2018-11-15T13:56:47.443Z", "content": "I'm not convinced that a downvoting button would be a good thing, but I wanted to argue that downvoting is possible on stackoverflow and their system works pretty well. However, to cast a downvote, you have to be a trusted user: in Kaggle's context, a possibility could be to allow downvoting after a given tier (for master or above for example).
", "rawMarkdown": "I'm not convinced that a downvoting button would be a good thing, but I wanted to argue that downvoting is possible on stackoverflow and their system works pretty well. However, to cast a downvote, you have to be a trusted user: in Kaggle's context, a possibility could be to allow downvoting after a given tier (for master or above for example).", "votes": 7, "replies": [ { "id": 421864, "postDate": "2018-11-15T14:11:20.037Z", "content": "I do find stackoverflow hostile because of that very reason. For solving one problem, you are creating 10 new problems.
", "rawMarkdown": "I do find stackoverflow hostile because of that very reason. For solving one problem, you are creating 10 new problems.", "votes": -5 }, { "id": 422078, "postDate": "2018-11-15T18:58:28.027Z", "content": "Maybe instead of downvoting, they could add the option to flag posts. You could add a reason for the flag such as stealing content, cheating, inappropriate, etc.. Then if a kernel gets enough flags, the moderators look into it and take action. That way if a bunch of trolls attack a kernel, it won't have any effect since the moderators will see that the flagging was baseless.
", "rawMarkdown": "Maybe instead of downvoting, they could add the option to flag posts. You could add a reason for the flag such as stealing content, cheating, inappropriate, etc.. Then if a kernel gets enough flags, the moderators look into it and take action. That way if a bunch of trolls attack a kernel, it won't have any effect since the moderators will see that the flagging was baseless.", "votes": 3 }, { "id": 422086, "postDate": "2018-11-15T19:04:34.823Z", "content": "Nice suggestion! Only if others were like you.
", "rawMarkdown": "Nice suggestion! Only if others were like you.", "votes": -3 } ] }, { "id": 421570, "postDate": "2018-11-15T06:27:16.903Z", "content": "It is almost sad that we are discussing issues like cheating and downvoting rather than the insights from the competition. Also, I don't/won't have any beef with anyone who doesn't agree with my views.
\n\nAlmost any time a leak occurs or cheating is exposed on kaggle, some people ask for a downvote button. And it might be good to punish cheaters but it will also be used by people who just climb the ranks of kaggle without doing much work. They would read kernels, use content from those kernels, implement that in their own and then ask for upvotes without upvoting or commenting on the work that helped them. What happens if they can anonymously downvote stuff? Any day a person gains a rank over them, they might downvote all his kernels. Some people might do this for fun.
\n\nA novice comes to this platform and he/she might use the upvote-downvote buttons the same way he/she uses the facebook react buttons. Let's not reduce valuable scripts of codes to memes.
\n\nI have mentioned this incident like thrice but I will mention it again. During one competition early this year when cheaters were exposed, I wrote a post about them rebuking them for their actions and telling them the consequences. What followed was mass downvoting of all my posts ever on this platform because I spoke against cheating. I don't care if anyone downvotes my posts but if someone downvotes my kernels because I called them out for fraud/cheating, this is injustice.
\n\nI am sure that most people advocating for downvotes live in democratic countries. Maybe, you guys haven't heard of this principle of judiciary of democratic countries but let me enlighten you: In certain situations, even if the judicial system fails to correctly punish 10 criminals, it can be reluctantly accepted but under no circumstance, I say under no circumstance should an innocent person be punished
\n\nAlso, it clearly destroys the user experience because no hardworking person is happy to see downvotes without any reason. There will be people who will downvote a kernel because the code used Logistic Regression and not Naive Bayes.
\n\nPlease don't compare kaggle to social networks like Facebook and Youtube to justify downvoting when it resembles GitHub and Linkedin more. Guess what, these platforms don't have downvote buttons. Downvotes or any kind of unjustified criticism(just talking about some cases, not all) is the destroyer of the open source ecosystem.\nAt the same time, we can't deny the presence of ungrateful users on this platform and their unfair practices. The best way to tackle this is to boycott such users and report them in dire cases. A report button can be very effective but it will eventually tamper with the moral compass because when you open source any valuable code, you can definitely expect people to use it but you can't expect them all to be grateful for it. There is no legal action you can take against them. Downvoting doesn't change morals.
\n\nThis world is full of people who want to watch this world burn. Let's not give them lighters.
", "rawMarkdown": "It is almost sad that we are discussing issues like cheating and downvoting rather than the insights from the competition. Also, I don't/won't have any beef with anyone who doesn't agree with my views. \n\nAlmost any time a leak occurs or cheating is exposed on kaggle, some people ask for a downvote button. And it might be good to punish cheaters but it will also be used by people who just climb the ranks of kaggle without doing much work. They would read kernels, use content from those kernels, implement that in their own and then ask for upvotes without upvoting or commenting on the work that helped them. **What happens if they can anonymously downvote stuff? Any day a person gains a rank over them, they might downvote all his kernels. Some people might do this for fun.**\n\nA novice comes to this platform and he/she might use the upvote-downvote buttons the same way he/she uses the facebook react buttons. **Let's not reduce valuable scripts of codes to memes.**\n\nI have mentioned this incident like thrice but I will mention it again. During one competition early this year when cheaters were exposed, I wrote a post about them rebuking them for their actions and telling them the consequences. What followed was mass downvoting of all my posts ever on this platform because I spoke against cheating. I don't care if anyone downvotes my posts but if someone downvotes my kernels because I called them out for fraud/cheating, this is injustice. \n\nI am sure that most people advocating for downvotes live in democratic countries. Maybe, you guys haven't heard of this principle of judiciary of democratic countries but let me enlighten you: **In certain situations, even if the judicial system fails to correctly punish 10 criminals, it can be reluctantly accepted but under no circumstance, I say under no circumstance should an innocent person be punished**\n\nAlso, it clearly destroys the user experience because no hardworking person is happy to see downvotes without any reason. There will be people who will downvote a kernel because the code used Logistic Regression and not Naive Bayes.\n\nPlease **don't compare kaggle to social networks like Facebook and Youtube** to justify downvoting when it resembles GitHub and Linkedin more. Guess what, these platforms don't have downvote buttons. **Downvotes or any kind of unjustified criticism(just talking about some cases, not all) is the destroyer of the open source ecosystem.**\nAt the same time, we can't deny the presence of ungrateful users on this platform and their unfair practices. The best way to tackle this is to boycott such users and report them in dire cases. **A report button can be very effective but it will eventually tamper with the moral compass** because when you open source any valuable code, you can definitely expect people to use it but you can't expect them all to be grateful for it. There is no legal action you can take against them. **Downvoting doesn't change morals.**\n\n**This world is full of people who want to watch this world burn. Let's not give them lighters.**", "votes": 3 }, { "id": 423672, "postDate": "2018-11-18T21:05:23.703Z", "content": "I'm happy to have a downvote button only if downvoters' name is public.
\n\nI don't understand why this is an asymetric game.
", "rawMarkdown": "I'm happy to have a downvote button only if downvoters' name is public.\n\nI don't understand why this is an asymetric game.", "votes": 5, "replies": [ { "id": 423751, "postDate": "2018-11-19T01:50:24.330Z", "content": "Would rather have up votes private than having downvotes at all. Actually it is better. Because that will be genuine appreciation
", "rawMarkdown": "Would rather have up votes private than having downvotes at all. Actually it is better. Because that will be genuine appreciation", "votes": -3 } ] }, { "id": 421867, "postDate": "2018-11-15T14:12:38.237Z", "content": "Dude, no one cares about kernel medals neither discussion medals
", "rawMarkdown": "Dude, no one cares about kernel medals neither discussion medals", "votes": 4, "replies": [ { "id": 422027, "postDate": "2018-11-15T17:38:58.620Z", "content": "False
", "rawMarkdown": "False", "votes": 13 } ] }, { "id": 423864, "postDate": "2018-11-19T06:51:29.263Z", "content": "Hm. In some cases, I think people would like to down vote kernels with \"leaks\" or kernels that provide a disproportionate advantage when they are published just before the deadline - it's discouraging for competitors to feel that their efforts have been washed by something that was given easy. That said, a down vote can be for some a way of showing disapproval for such practices. Usually, these kernels -when published early- are much more acceptable for competitors. I, personally, appreciate when competitors publish leaks and also take the extra step to contact Kaggle to see if the competition can still be preserved as an ML/AI competition such as what has been done recently. In such cases, I would personally up vote those kernels.
\n\nIn regards to this thread being posted specifically in the Quora Insincere discussion board: I wonder if perhaps it would have been more appropriate to post this in the Product Feedback thread?
", "rawMarkdown": "Hm. In some cases, I think people would like to down vote kernels with \"leaks\" or kernels that provide a disproportionate advantage when they are published just before the deadline - it's discouraging for competitors to feel that their efforts have been washed by something that was given easy. That said, a down vote can be for some a way of showing disapproval for such practices. Usually, these kernels -when published early- are much more acceptable for competitors. I, personally, appreciate when competitors publish leaks and also take the extra step to contact Kaggle to see if the competition can still be preserved as an ML/AI competition such as what has been done recently. In such cases, I would personally up vote those kernels. \n\nIn regards to this thread being posted specifically in the Quora Insincere discussion board: I wonder if perhaps it would have been more appropriate to post this in the [Product Feedback](https://www.kaggle.com/product-feedback) thread?", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 423135, "postDate": "2018-11-17T15:31:37.757Z", "content": "People targeting one another using downvote feature is a reality.
", "rawMarkdown": "People targeting one another using downvote feature is a reality.", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 422316, "postDate": "2018-11-16T04:00:26.803Z", "content": "Siddharth, I have an opinion on this paragraph:
\n\n\n\n\nAlso, it clearly destroys the user experience because no hardworking person is happy to see downvotes without any reason. There will be people who will downvote a kernel because the code used Logistic Regression and not Naive Bayes.
\n
I haven't seen evidence of any negative feedback based on a kernel that might seem \"suboptimal\". Personally I have no issue with any honest effort in kernels regardless of results. I might not upvote it, but I would not think of downvoting it. I would only reserve downvoting for kernels that seem detrimental to our community.
", "rawMarkdown": "Siddharth, I have an opinion on this paragraph:\n > Also, it clearly destroys the user experience because no hardworking person is happy to see downvotes without any reason. There will be people who will downvote a kernel because the code used Logistic Regression and not Naive Bayes.\n\nI haven't seen evidence of any negative feedback based on a kernel that might seem \"suboptimal\". Personally I have no issue with any honest effort in kernels regardless of results. I might not upvote it, but I would not think of downvoting it. I would only reserve downvoting for kernels that seem detrimental to our community.", "votes": 1, "replies": [ { "id": 422328, "postDate": "2018-11-16T04:29:42.887Z", "content": "No product development team will add a feature thinking some people will use it for good. No point adding a feature with fewer pros than cons.
\n\nYou can guarantee your behavior on this platform, not everyone else's. I mean, look at this topic. I don't mind the downvotes because a portion(even though small) of people want the downvote feature but not explaining the reason for this makes them look like stubborn kids who want something but can't explain why. The other theory is that there is a Downvote cult on kaggle xD
", "rawMarkdown": "No product development team will add a feature thinking some people will use it for good. No point adding a feature with fewer pros than cons. \n\nYou can guarantee your behavior on this platform, not everyone else's. I mean, look at this topic. I don't mind the downvotes because a portion(even though small) of people want the downvote feature but not explaining the reason for this makes them look like stubborn kids who want something but can't explain why. The other theory is that there is a Downvote cult on kaggle xD ", "votes": -2 }, { "id": 422431, "postDate": "2018-11-16T08:06:23.170Z", "content": "\n\n\nI don't mind the downvotes because a portion(even though small) of people want the downvote feature but not explaining the reason for this makes them look like stubborn kids who want something but can't explain why.
\n
In a democracy, when you choose a president, you don't have to explain your vote.
", "rawMarkdown": "> I don't mind the downvotes because a portion(even though small) of people want the downvote feature but not explaining the reason for this makes them look like stubborn kids who want something but can't explain why. \n\nIn a democracy, when you choose a president, you don't have to explain your vote. ", "votes": 2 }, { "id": 422460, "postDate": "2018-11-16T08:52:33.390Z", "content": "Not a fair analogy since we are not electing anyone. It is more of a debate and guess what, people put forth their views in parliament debates.
", "rawMarkdown": "Not a fair analogy since we are not electing anyone. It is more of a debate and guess what, people put forth their views in parliament debates.", "votes": -1 } ] }, { "id": 422073, "postDate": "2018-11-15T18:52:30.477Z", "content": "I think this number of downvotes must contain a certain message!!!\nI can not understand! Why?!
", "rawMarkdown": "I think this number of downvotes must contain a certain message!!!\nI can not understand! Why?!", "votes": 1, "replies": [ { "id": 422080, "postDate": "2018-11-15T18:59:48.397Z", "content": "This is why I am against downvotes. They downvote to convey they disagree. But then don't say why they disagree. Not one of them has been able to counter the points in the article. All they can do is downvote.
", "rawMarkdown": "This is why I am against downvotes. They downvote to convey they disagree. But then don't say why they disagree. Not one of them has been able to counter the points in the article. All they can do is downvote.", "votes": -2 } ] }, { "id": 422029, "postDate": "2018-11-15T17:41:02.850Z", "content": "Somehow -20 downvotes still gets a bronze discussion medal ^.^
", "rawMarkdown": "Somehow -20 downvotes still gets a bronze discussion medal ^.^", "votes": 1, "replies": [ { "id": 422031, "postDate": "2018-11-15T17:42:09.247Z", "content": "That's for my bravery and tolerance.
", "rawMarkdown": "That's for my bravery and tolerance." }, { "id": 422036, "postDate": "2018-11-15T17:50:15.700Z", "content": "At first there were several upvotes... It seems Kaggle \"remembers\" medals and keeps them :)
", "rawMarkdown": "At first there were several upvotes... It seems Kaggle \"remembers\" medals and keeps them :)" } ] }, { "id": 423289, "postDate": "2018-11-17T21:29:22.113Z", "content": "your post got many downvotes ...
\n\nI agree that downvotes can be discouraging and signal a new user of not being welcome. It's basically bullying.
\n\nHowever, downvotes are a legitimate signal for controversial topics. The issue is that Kaggle's Sorts by \"Most Votes\" orders by the net votes (+Upvotes - Downvotes) instead of the absolute number of votes
", "rawMarkdown": "your post got many downvotes ... \n\nI agree that downvotes can be discouraging and signal a new user of not being welcome. It's basically bullying.\n\nHowever, downvotes are a legitimate signal for controversial topics. The issue is that Kaggle's Sorts by \"Most Votes\" orders by the net votes (+Upvotes - Downvotes) instead of the absolute number of votes", "votes": 2 }, { "id": 422532, "postDate": "2018-11-16T11:14:00.390Z", "content": "Why would down votes on kernels be worse than down votes on forum posts? Why are you only discussing kernel down votes?
\n\nI don't get why you are downvoted either here, but that's a different story.
", "rawMarkdown": "Why would down votes on kernels be worse than down votes on forum posts? Why are you only discussing kernel down votes?\n\nI don't get why you are downvoted either here, but that's a different story.", "votes": 1, "replies": [ { "id": 422539, "postDate": "2018-11-16T11:27:03.020Z", "content": "I am not a fan of down votes in general but discussion down voting is an already implemented feature and kernel down voting feature has been proposed by few people.
", "rawMarkdown": "I am not a fan of down votes in general but discussion down voting is an already implemented feature and kernel down voting feature has been proposed by few people.", "votes": -1 } ] }, { "id": 421900, "postDate": "2018-11-15T14:49:49.620Z", "content": "My point is proved here. All these downvotes and only 3 people care to explain why. Did you even read the whole article I wrote? If I am wrong, tell me why. Don't hide behind your anonymous downvotes. Come and speak up if you have something to say. And please read the whole article first.
", "rawMarkdown": "My point is proved here. All these downvotes and only 3 people care to explain why. Did you even read the whole article I wrote? If I am wrong, tell me why. Don't hide behind your anonymous downvotes. Come and speak up if you have something to say. And please read the whole article first.", "votes": -4, "replies": [ { "id": 422534, "postDate": "2018-11-16T11:18:15.780Z", "content": "I think I now get why you get down votes. People living in democratic countries don't like to be told what to do and what to think. I bet most people here are rebutted by the way you express your views. Maybe if you change your tone your message will be better understood.
", "rawMarkdown": "I think I now get why you get down votes. People living in democratic countries don't like to be told what to do and what to think. I bet most people here are rebutted by the way you express your views. Maybe if you change your tone your message will be better understood.", "votes": 6 }, { "id": 422538, "postDate": "2018-11-16T11:24:26.973Z", "content": "Yes. I got rude here and I am sorry for that but this statement was made much after the barrage of down votes.
", "rawMarkdown": "Yes. I got rude here and I am sorry for that but this statement was made much after the barrage of down votes.", "votes": -2 }, { "id": 422997, "postDate": "2018-11-17T08:18:40.633Z", "content": "Your original post is very prescriptive still, and got down voted. I think it is because you patronize people, and they don't like it.
", "rawMarkdown": "Your original post is very prescriptive still, and got down voted. I think it is because you patronize people, and they don't like it.", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 423006, "postDate": "2018-11-17T08:39:56.413Z", "content": "I was just trying to put forth my views but I guess in the heat of it all, I got over excited. I better focus on my work now.
", "rawMarkdown": "I was just trying to put forth my views but I guess in the heat of it all, I got over excited. I better focus on my work now.", "votes": -2 } ] }, { "id": 421875, "postDate": "2018-11-15T14:21:49.793Z", "content": "This sudden surge of downvotes here does point towards a cult on kaggle that worships downvoting. LOL, this is interesting.
", "rawMarkdown": "This sudden surge of downvotes here does point towards a cult on kaggle that worships downvoting. LOL, this is interesting. ", "votes": -15, "replies": [ { "id": 421891, "postDate": "2018-11-15T14:40:33.023Z", "content": "You guys don't have a sense of humor. That much is clear.
", "rawMarkdown": "You guys don't have a sense of humor. That much is clear.", "votes": -15 } ] }, { "id": 716039, "postDate": "2020-01-11T07:04:15.087Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "isDeleted": true }, { "id": 448912, "postDate": "2019-01-02T10:46:41.730Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "isDeleted": true } ], "comments": [ { "id": 421855, "author_name": "Andrey Lukyanenko", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T13:56:09.453000", "content": "Well. These are just upvotes... if some people can use questionable ways to get votes, why not let other people to downvote them? or downvote medal kernels, appearing just before the deadline?
\n\nGetting medals in kernels/discussions is much easier that in competitions anyway.
", "votes": 8, "replies": [ { "id": 421869, "author_name": "Siddharth Yadav", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T14:16:19.343000", "content": "Can you guarantee that downvotes will happen only because someone did something questionable. Think of this, a beginner publishes a kernel in hope to get feedback. Another novice downvotes coz he didn't find it good enough. No feedback and 2 downvotes are enough to discourage a beginner. Sometimes even if the work is subpar, I upvote some kernels by beginners and write good comments to encourage them. This is called community building. Something that is lacking due to cheaters.
", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 421881, "author_name": "Andrey Lukyanenko", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T14:33:25.983000", "content": "Well, I can't. I suppose I may be callous or harsh, but I think that if a person is discouraged after a first like, maybe he isn't really into DS.\nI'm all for helping and encouraging people (I often help myself), but they should have an internal strength, discipline and motivation. :)
\n\nAnyway, I agree that downvotes can be abused and their possible implementation should be carefully considered and evaluated.
", "votes": 2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 421984, "author_name": "Siddharth Yadav", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T16:33:56.987000", "content": "Most people don't handle criticism like I am handling right now. It is nice to see the real face of kaggle.
", "votes": -1, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 421868, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T14:14:25.567000", "content": "\n", "votes": 7, "replies": [ { "id": 421870, "author_name": "Siddharth Yadav", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T14:17:00.453000", "content": "This world is full of people who want to watch this world burn. Let's not give them lighters\n With great power of dislike button comes great responsibility
\n
Admit it. My line was better.
", "votes": -12, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 421856, "author_name": "FabienDaniel", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T13:56:47.443000", "content": "I'm not convinced that a downvoting button would be a good thing, but I wanted to argue that downvoting is possible on stackoverflow and their system works pretty well. However, to cast a downvote, you have to be a trusted user: in Kaggle's context, a possibility could be to allow downvoting after a given tier (for master or above for example).
", "votes": 7, "replies": [ { "id": 421864, "author_name": "Siddharth Yadav", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T14:11:20.037000", "content": "I do find stackoverflow hostile because of that very reason. For solving one problem, you are creating 10 new problems.
", "votes": -5, "replies": [] }, { "id": 422078, "author_name": "Allen", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T18:58:28.027000", "content": "Maybe instead of downvoting, they could add the option to flag posts. You could add a reason for the flag such as stealing content, cheating, inappropriate, etc.. Then if a kernel gets enough flags, the moderators look into it and take action. That way if a bunch of trolls attack a kernel, it won't have any effect since the moderators will see that the flagging was baseless.
", "votes": 3, "replies": [] }, { "id": 422086, "author_name": "Siddharth Yadav", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T19:04:34.823000", "content": "Nice suggestion! Only if others were like you.
", "votes": -3, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 423672, "author_name": "olivier", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-18T21:05:23.703000", "content": "I'm happy to have a downvote button only if downvoters' name is public.
\n\nI don't understand why this is an asymetric game.
", "votes": 5, "replies": [ { "id": 423751, "author_name": "Siddharth Yadav", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-19T01:50:24.330000", "content": "Would rather have up votes private than having downvotes at all. Actually it is better. Because that will be genuine appreciation
", "votes": -3, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 421867, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T14:12:38.237000", "content": "Dude, no one cares about kernel medals neither discussion medals
", "votes": 4, "replies": [ { "id": 422027, "author_name": "Peter Hurford", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T17:38:58.620000", "content": "False
", "votes": 13, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 423864, "author_name": "Thomas Yokota", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-19T06:51:29.263000", "content": "Hm. In some cases, I think people would like to down vote kernels with \"leaks\" or kernels that provide a disproportionate advantage when they are published just before the deadline - it's discouraging for competitors to feel that their efforts have been washed by something that was given easy. That said, a down vote can be for some a way of showing disapproval for such practices. Usually, these kernels -when published early- are much more acceptable for competitors. I, personally, appreciate when competitors publish leaks and also take the extra step to contact Kaggle to see if the competition can still be preserved as an ML/AI competition such as what has been done recently. In such cases, I would personally up vote those kernels.
\n\nIn regards to this thread being posted specifically in the Quora Insincere discussion board: I wonder if perhaps it would have been more appropriate to post this in the Product Feedback thread?
", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 423135, "author_name": "Shruti_Iyyer", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-17T15:31:37.757000", "content": "People targeting one another using downvote feature is a reality.
", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 422316, "author_name": "JohnM", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-16T04:00:26.803000", "content": "Siddharth, I have an opinion on this paragraph:
\n\n\n\n\nAlso, it clearly destroys the user experience because no hardworking person is happy to see downvotes without any reason. There will be people who will downvote a kernel because the code used Logistic Regression and not Naive Bayes.
\n
I haven't seen evidence of any negative feedback based on a kernel that might seem \"suboptimal\". Personally I have no issue with any honest effort in kernels regardless of results. I might not upvote it, but I would not think of downvoting it. I would only reserve downvoting for kernels that seem detrimental to our community.
", "votes": 1, "replies": [ { "id": 422328, "author_name": "Siddharth Yadav", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-16T04:29:42.887000", "content": "No product development team will add a feature thinking some people will use it for good. No point adding a feature with fewer pros than cons.
\n\nYou can guarantee your behavior on this platform, not everyone else's. I mean, look at this topic. I don't mind the downvotes because a portion(even though small) of people want the downvote feature but not explaining the reason for this makes them look like stubborn kids who want something but can't explain why. The other theory is that there is a Downvote cult on kaggle xD
", "votes": -2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 422431, "author_name": "FabienDaniel", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-16T08:06:23.170000", "content": "\n\n\nI don't mind the downvotes because a portion(even though small) of people want the downvote feature but not explaining the reason for this makes them look like stubborn kids who want something but can't explain why.
\n
In a democracy, when you choose a president, you don't have to explain your vote.
", "votes": 2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 422460, "author_name": "Siddharth Yadav", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-16T08:52:33.390000", "content": "Not a fair analogy since we are not electing anyone. It is more of a debate and guess what, people put forth their views in parliament debates.
", "votes": -1, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 422073, "author_name": "MJ Bahmani", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T18:52:30.477000", "content": "I think this number of downvotes must contain a certain message!!!\nI can not understand! Why?!
", "votes": 1, "replies": [ { "id": 422080, "author_name": "Siddharth Yadav", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T18:59:48.397000", "content": "This is why I am against downvotes. They downvote to convey they disagree. But then don't say why they disagree. Not one of them has been able to counter the points in the article. All they can do is downvote.
", "votes": -2, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 422029, "author_name": "Peter Hurford", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T17:41:02.850000", "content": "Somehow -20 downvotes still gets a bronze discussion medal ^.^
", "votes": 1, "replies": [ { "id": 422031, "author_name": "Siddharth Yadav", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T17:42:09.247000", "content": "That's for my bravery and tolerance.
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 422036, "author_name": "Andrey Lukyanenko", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T17:50:15.700000", "content": "At first there were several upvotes... It seems Kaggle \"remembers\" medals and keeps them :)
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 423289, "author_name": "bubblride", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-17T21:29:22.113000", "content": "your post got many downvotes ...
\n\nI agree that downvotes can be discouraging and signal a new user of not being welcome. It's basically bullying.
\n\nHowever, downvotes are a legitimate signal for controversial topics. The issue is that Kaggle's Sorts by \"Most Votes\" orders by the net votes (+Upvotes - Downvotes) instead of the absolute number of votes
", "votes": 2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 422532, "author_name": "CPMP", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-16T11:14:00.390000", "content": "Why would down votes on kernels be worse than down votes on forum posts? Why are you only discussing kernel down votes?
\n\nI don't get why you are downvoted either here, but that's a different story.
", "votes": 1, "replies": [ { "id": 422539, "author_name": "Siddharth Yadav", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-16T11:27:03.020000", "content": "I am not a fan of down votes in general but discussion down voting is an already implemented feature and kernel down voting feature has been proposed by few people.
", "votes": -1, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 421900, "author_name": "Siddharth Yadav", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T14:49:49.620000", "content": "My point is proved here. All these downvotes and only 3 people care to explain why. Did you even read the whole article I wrote? If I am wrong, tell me why. Don't hide behind your anonymous downvotes. Come and speak up if you have something to say. And please read the whole article first.
", "votes": -4, "replies": [ { "id": 422534, "author_name": "CPMP", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-16T11:18:15.780000", "content": "I think I now get why you get down votes. People living in democratic countries don't like to be told what to do and what to think. I bet most people here are rebutted by the way you express your views. Maybe if you change your tone your message will be better understood.
", "votes": 6, "replies": [] }, { "id": 422538, "author_name": "Siddharth Yadav", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-16T11:24:26.973000", "content": "Yes. I got rude here and I am sorry for that but this statement was made much after the barrage of down votes.
", "votes": -2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 422997, "author_name": "CPMP", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-17T08:18:40.633000", "content": "Your original post is very prescriptive still, and got down voted. I think it is because you patronize people, and they don't like it.
", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 423006, "author_name": "Siddharth Yadav", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-17T08:39:56.413000", "content": "I was just trying to put forth my views but I guess in the heat of it all, I got over excited. I better focus on my work now.
", "votes": -2, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 421875, "author_name": "Siddharth Yadav", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T14:21:49.793000", "content": "This sudden surge of downvotes here does point towards a cult on kaggle that worships downvoting. LOL, this is interesting.
", "votes": -15, "replies": [ { "id": 421891, "author_name": "Siddharth Yadav", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-15T14:40:33.023000", "content": "You guys don't have a sense of humor. That much is clear.
", "votes": -15, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 716039, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-01-11T07:04:15.087000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 448912, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-01-02T10:46:41.730000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ], "raw_markdown_by_id": { "421855": "Well. These are just upvotes... if some people can use questionable ways to get votes, why not let other people to downvote them? or downvote medal kernels, appearing just before the deadline?\n\nGetting medals in kernels/discussions is much easier that in competitions anyway.", "421868": ">This world is full of people who want to watch this world burn. Let's not give them lighters\nWith great power of dislike button comes great responsibility", "421856": "I'm not convinced that a downvoting button would be a good thing, but I wanted to argue that downvoting is possible on stackoverflow and their system works pretty well. However, to cast a downvote, you have to be a trusted user: in Kaggle's context, a possibility could be to allow downvoting after a given tier (for master or above for example).", "421570": "It is almost sad that we are discussing issues like cheating and downvoting rather than the insights from the competition. Also, I don't/won't have any beef with anyone who doesn't agree with my views. \n\nAlmost any time a leak occurs or cheating is exposed on kaggle, some people ask for a downvote button. And it might be good to punish cheaters but it will also be used by people who just climb the ranks of kaggle without doing much work. They would read kernels, use content from those kernels, implement that in their own and then ask for upvotes without upvoting or commenting on the work that helped them. **What happens if they can anonymously downvote stuff? Any day a person gains a rank over them, they might downvote all his kernels. Some people might do this for fun.**\n\nA novice comes to this platform and he/she might use the upvote-downvote buttons the same way he/she uses the facebook react buttons. **Let's not reduce valuable scripts of codes to memes.**\n\nI have mentioned this incident like thrice but I will mention it again. During one competition early this year when cheaters were exposed, I wrote a post about them rebuking them for their actions and telling them the consequences. What followed was mass downvoting of all my posts ever on this platform because I spoke against cheating. I don't care if anyone downvotes my posts but if someone downvotes my kernels because I called them out for fraud/cheating, this is injustice. \n\nI am sure that most people advocating for downvotes live in democratic countries. Maybe, you guys haven't heard of this principle of judiciary of democratic countries but let me enlighten you: **In certain situations, even if the judicial system fails to correctly punish 10 criminals, it can be reluctantly accepted but under no circumstance, I say under no circumstance should an innocent person be punished**\n\nAlso, it clearly destroys the user experience because no hardworking person is happy to see downvotes without any reason. There will be people who will downvote a kernel because the code used Logistic Regression and not Naive Bayes.\n\nPlease **don't compare kaggle to social networks like Facebook and Youtube** to justify downvoting when it resembles GitHub and Linkedin more. Guess what, these platforms don't have downvote buttons. **Downvotes or any kind of unjustified criticism(just talking about some cases, not all) is the destroyer of the open source ecosystem.**\nAt the same time, we can't deny the presence of ungrateful users on this platform and their unfair practices. The best way to tackle this is to boycott such users and report them in dire cases. **A report button can be very effective but it will eventually tamper with the moral compass** because when you open source any valuable code, you can definitely expect people to use it but you can't expect them all to be grateful for it. There is no legal action you can take against them. **Downvoting doesn't change morals.**\n\n**This world is full of people who want to watch this world burn. Let's not give them lighters.**", "423672": "I'm happy to have a downvote button only if downvoters' name is public.\n\nI don't understand why this is an asymetric game.", "421867": "Dude, no one cares about kernel medals neither discussion medals", "423864": "Hm. In some cases, I think people would like to down vote kernels with \"leaks\" or kernels that provide a disproportionate advantage when they are published just before the deadline - it's discouraging for competitors to feel that their efforts have been washed by something that was given easy. That said, a down vote can be for some a way of showing disapproval for such practices. Usually, these kernels -when published early- are much more acceptable for competitors. I, personally, appreciate when competitors publish leaks and also take the extra step to contact Kaggle to see if the competition can still be preserved as an ML/AI competition such as what has been done recently. In such cases, I would personally up vote those kernels. \n\nIn regards to this thread being posted specifically in the Quora Insincere discussion board: I wonder if perhaps it would have been more appropriate to post this in the [Product Feedback](https://www.kaggle.com/product-feedback) thread?", "423135": "People targeting one another using downvote feature is a reality.", "422316": "Siddharth, I have an opinion on this paragraph:\n > Also, it clearly destroys the user experience because no hardworking person is happy to see downvotes without any reason. There will be people who will downvote a kernel because the code used Logistic Regression and not Naive Bayes.\n\nI haven't seen evidence of any negative feedback based on a kernel that might seem \"suboptimal\". Personally I have no issue with any honest effort in kernels regardless of results. I might not upvote it, but I would not think of downvoting it. I would only reserve downvoting for kernels that seem detrimental to our community.", "422073": "I think this number of downvotes must contain a certain message!!!\nI can not understand! Why?!", "422029": "Somehow -20 downvotes still gets a bronze discussion medal ^.^", "423289": "your post got many downvotes ... \n\nI agree that downvotes can be discouraging and signal a new user of not being welcome. It's basically bullying.\n\nHowever, downvotes are a legitimate signal for controversial topics. The issue is that Kaggle's Sorts by \"Most Votes\" orders by the net votes (+Upvotes - Downvotes) instead of the absolute number of votes", "422532": "Why would down votes on kernels be worse than down votes on forum posts? Why are you only discussing kernel down votes?\n\nI don't get why you are downvoted either here, but that's a different story.", "421900": "My point is proved here. All these downvotes and only 3 people care to explain why. Did you even read the whole article I wrote? If I am wrong, tell me why. Don't hide behind your anonymous downvotes. Come and speak up if you have something to say. And please read the whole article first.", "421875": "This sudden surge of downvotes here does point towards a cult on kaggle that worships downvoting. LOL, this is interesting. ", "716039": "", "448912": "" } }