Can a mod please clarify rule #10 in the eligibility criteria? It sounds as if the winner of the competition would be expected to compensate the federal government if it were sued for the implementation of the winner's solution. What kind of \"Competition activities\" are in scope here and what could the associated damages and claims be?
\n\nThanks,\nRyan
\n\n> By participating in this Competition, you must agree to indemnify the Federal Government against third party claims for damages arising from or related to Competition activities and for damage or loss to government property resulting from such activity.
", "messages": [ { "id": "244823", "postDate": "11/17/2017 01:45:32", "content": "Can a mod please clarify rule #10 in the eligibility criteria? It sounds as if the winner of the competition would be expected to compensate the federal government if it were sued for the implementation of the winner's solution. What kind of \"Competition activities\" are in scope here and what could the associated damages and claims be?
\n\nThanks,\nRyan
\n\n> By participating in this Competition, you must agree to indemnify the Federal Government against third party claims for damages arising from or related to Competition activities and for damage or loss to government property resulting from such activity.
", "rawMarkdown": "Can a mod please clarify rule #10 in the eligibility criteria? It sounds as if the winner of the competition would be expected to compensate the federal government if it were sued for the implementation of the winner's solution. What kind of \"Competition activities\" are in scope here and what could the associated damages and claims be?\n\nThanks,\nRyan\n\n> By participating in this Competition, you must agree to indemnify the Federal Government against third party claims for damages arising from or related to Competition activities and for damage or loss to government property resulting from such activity.", "votes": null }, { "id": "245041", "postDate": "11/17/2017 14:33:57", "content": "Hey Ryan,
\n\nKaggle/Google admins are not qualified or permitted to interpret legal questions or give legal advice. I'll see if I can get a Google attorney to answer this, but I can't promise it.
\n\n(I know it's not very helpful, but the standard answer to this type of question would be to consult your own attorney.)
", "rawMarkdown": "Hey Ryan,\n\nKaggle/Google admins are not qualified or permitted to interpret legal questions or give legal advice. I'll see if I can get a Google attorney to answer this, but I can't promise it.\n\n(I know it's not very helpful, but the standard answer to this type of question would be to consult your own attorney.)", "votes": null }, { "id": "245886", "postDate": "11/20/2017 01:31:59", "content": "I know it sounds snarky, but I just can't resist: I love our legal system... (insert comical eye rolling here)
\n\nEdit: upon further reflection, it occurred to me that the legal system really isn't at fault. I'm going to be wise and shut up now :)
", "rawMarkdown": "I know it sounds snarky, but I just can't resist: I love our legal system... (insert comical eye rolling here)\n\n*Edit:* upon further reflection, it occurred to me that the legal system really isn't at fault. I'm going to be wise and shut up now :)", "votes": null }, { "id": "246076", "postDate": "11/20/2017 14:23:02", "content": "I think it's only fair that I actually \"risk\" giving you an answer (I'm not an attorney, but uh... yeah, I really don't give a damn, people deserve answers, lol!)
\n\nI think what that means is that if you steal somebody else's intellectual property and they don't notice until they get sued for it, you pay, not them. That sort of thing. Honestly, a lot of unfair stuff goes on, but they usually don't do things that make them look bad -- I wouldn't worry about getting arrested if a terrorist slips through your algorithm, etc.. Keep in mind that it's legal boilerplate too. They likely use it for hardware, which could, I dunno... fry their systems or something, I guess.
\n\nOh yeah, and of course if somebody's stupid enough to backdoor the code they're giving the government; my point is that if you don't do bad stuff, you won't have any trouble. Feel free to sue me if I'm wrong (if I am, you suing me will be the least of our problems.)
", "rawMarkdown": "I think it's only fair that I actually \"risk\" giving you an answer (I'm not an attorney, but uh... yeah, I really don't give a damn, people deserve answers, lol!)\n\nI think what that means is that if you steal somebody else's intellectual property and they don't notice until they get sued for it, you pay, not them. That sort of thing. Honestly, a lot of unfair stuff goes on, but they usually don't do things that make them look bad -- I wouldn't worry about getting arrested if a terrorist slips through your algorithm, etc.. Keep in mind that it's legal boilerplate too. They likely use it for hardware, which could, I dunno... fry their systems or something, I guess.\n\nOh yeah, and of course if somebody's stupid enough to backdoor the code they're giving the government; my point is that if you don't do bad stuff, you won't have any trouble. Feel free to sue me if I'm wrong (if I am, you suing me will be the least of our problems.)", "votes": null }, { "id": "246247", "postDate": "11/20/2017 19:51:19", "content": "Ryan,
\n\nRules are held between the competition sponsor and participants. I followed up with the DHS folks and received the following. I hope that helps!
\n\n\"When submitting your algorithm under this competition, you must have acquired all necessary permissions, including those of any third parties, to allow the Government to use it within the scope of the competition. For further information regarding the scope of the challenge and extent of a Solver’s liability, including third party claims against the government as a result of your submission, please refer to the Challenge Solver User agreement, including sections regarding “Intellectual Property”, and “Participant Warranties and Obligations.”\"
", "rawMarkdown": "Ryan,\n\nRules are held between the competition sponsor and participants. I followed up with the DHS folks and received the following. I hope that helps!\n\n\"When submitting your algorithm under this competition, you must have acquired all necessary permissions, including those of any third parties, to allow the Government to use it within the scope of the competition. For further information regarding the scope of the challenge and extent of a Solver’s liability, including third party claims against the government as a result of your submission, please refer to the Challenge Solver User agreement, including sections regarding “Intellectual Property”, and “Participant Warranties and Obligations.”\"", "votes": null } ], "comments": [ { "id": 245041, "author_name": "wcukierski", "author_url": "", "post_date": "11/17/2017 14:33:57", "content": "Hey Ryan,
\n\nKaggle/Google admins are not qualified or permitted to interpret legal questions or give legal advice. I'll see if I can get a Google attorney to answer this, but I can't promise it.
\n\n(I know it's not very helpful, but the standard answer to this type of question would be to consult your own attorney.)
", "votes": null, "replies": [ { "id": 245886, "author_name": "mmiron", "author_url": "", "post_date": "11/20/2017 01:31:59", "content": "I know it sounds snarky, but I just can't resist: I love our legal system... (insert comical eye rolling here)
\n\nEdit: upon further reflection, it occurred to me that the legal system really isn't at fault. I'm going to be wise and shut up now :)
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 246076, "author_name": "mmiron", "author_url": "", "post_date": "11/20/2017 14:23:02", "content": "I think it's only fair that I actually \"risk\" giving you an answer (I'm not an attorney, but uh... yeah, I really don't give a damn, people deserve answers, lol!)
\n\nI think what that means is that if you steal somebody else's intellectual property and they don't notice until they get sued for it, you pay, not them. That sort of thing. Honestly, a lot of unfair stuff goes on, but they usually don't do things that make them look bad -- I wouldn't worry about getting arrested if a terrorist slips through your algorithm, etc.. Keep in mind that it's legal boilerplate too. They likely use it for hardware, which could, I dunno... fry their systems or something, I guess.
\n\nOh yeah, and of course if somebody's stupid enough to backdoor the code they're giving the government; my point is that if you don't do bad stuff, you won't have any trouble. Feel free to sue me if I'm wrong (if I am, you suing me will be the least of our problems.)
", "votes": null, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 246247, "author_name": "addisonhoward", "author_url": "", "post_date": "11/20/2017 19:51:19", "content": "Ryan,
\n\nRules are held between the competition sponsor and participants. I followed up with the DHS folks and received the following. I hope that helps!
\n\n\"When submitting your algorithm under this competition, you must have acquired all necessary permissions, including those of any third parties, to allow the Government to use it within the scope of the competition. For further information regarding the scope of the challenge and extent of a Solver’s liability, including third party claims against the government as a result of your submission, please refer to the Challenge Solver User agreement, including sections regarding “Intellectual Property”, and “Participant Warranties and Obligations.”\"
", "votes": null, "replies": [] } ], "raw_markdown_by_id": { "244823": "Can a mod please clarify rule #10 in the eligibility criteria? It sounds as if the winner of the competition would be expected to compensate the federal government if it were sued for the implementation of the winner's solution. What kind of \"Competition activities\" are in scope here and what could the associated damages and claims be?\n\nThanks,\nRyan\n\n> By participating in this Competition, you must agree to indemnify the Federal Government against third party claims for damages arising from or related to Competition activities and for damage or loss to government property resulting from such activity.", "245041": "Hey Ryan,\n\nKaggle/Google admins are not qualified or permitted to interpret legal questions or give legal advice. I'll see if I can get a Google attorney to answer this, but I can't promise it.\n\n(I know it's not very helpful, but the standard answer to this type of question would be to consult your own attorney.)", "245886": "I know it sounds snarky, but I just can't resist: I love our legal system... (insert comical eye rolling here)\n\n*Edit:* upon further reflection, it occurred to me that the legal system really isn't at fault. I'm going to be wise and shut up now :)", "246076": "I think it's only fair that I actually \"risk\" giving you an answer (I'm not an attorney, but uh... yeah, I really don't give a damn, people deserve answers, lol!)\n\nI think what that means is that if you steal somebody else's intellectual property and they don't notice until they get sued for it, you pay, not them. That sort of thing. Honestly, a lot of unfair stuff goes on, but they usually don't do things that make them look bad -- I wouldn't worry about getting arrested if a terrorist slips through your algorithm, etc.. Keep in mind that it's legal boilerplate too. They likely use it for hardware, which could, I dunno... fry their systems or something, I guess.\n\nOh yeah, and of course if somebody's stupid enough to backdoor the code they're giving the government; my point is that if you don't do bad stuff, you won't have any trouble. Feel free to sue me if I'm wrong (if I am, you suing me will be the least of our problems.)", "246247": "Ryan,\n\nRules are held between the competition sponsor and participants. I followed up with the DHS folks and received the following. I hope that helps!\n\n\"When submitting your algorithm under this competition, you must have acquired all necessary permissions, including those of any third parties, to allow the Government to use it within the scope of the competition. For further information regarding the scope of the challenge and extent of a Solver’s liability, including third party claims against the government as a result of your submission, please refer to the Challenge Solver User agreement, including sections regarding “Intellectual Property”, and “Participant Warranties and Obligations.”\"" }, "source": "meta" }