I think it's not much in the hands of kaggle to decide whom should they give money or not. We must consider that this is a government's data and every government has some policies. Shouldn't we respect the policies and focus on the enormous and AWESOME data provided by Kaggle? After all, in the place, we are here for learning, aren't we? PS: Thoughts of a Kaggle Noob. Please be polite :)
", "messages": [ { "id": "195066", "postDate": "06/22/2017 17:42:28", "content": "I think it's not much in the hands of kaggle to decide whom should they give money or not. We must consider that this is a government's data and every government has some policies. Shouldn't we respect the policies and focus on the enormous and AWESOME data provided by Kaggle? After all, in the place, we are here for learning, aren't we? PS: Thoughts of a Kaggle Noob. Please be polite :)
", "rawMarkdown": "I think it's not much in the hands of kaggle to decide whom should they give money or not. We must consider that this is a government's data and every government has some policies. Shouldn't we respect the policies and focus on the enormous and AWESOME data provided by Kaggle? After all, in the place, we are here for learning, aren't we? PS: Thoughts of a Kaggle Noob. Please be polite :)", "votes": null }, { "id": "195082", "postDate": "06/22/2017 18:02:31", "content": "How far could it go under \"Are we here for money\" motto? We (I'm not the most active competitor but I already spent couple hundreds of hours here) spend a lot of time and efforts here and always learning and sharing enormous amount of knowledge here on forums and so on. Kaggle providing its platform as place to share and learn and talk. And it's great place to do so. But couldn't we expect some respect in return? The data in this competition isn't provided for us, we couldn't even use it for anything beyond the competition and should delete it after that. \nAnd what should we do? Business as usual, let's compete, create and share the best models, win top-500 places and then DHS will get all of this while awarding some US-citizen for subpar solution from 501 place? How would it look and feel for everybody? What press coverage there will be? \"America the first! Winner interview from 501 place\". Will there be some awkwardness? Will you be excited to participate in this or following competitions after that?
", "rawMarkdown": "How far could it go under \"Are we here for money\" motto? We (I'm not the most active competitor but I already spent couple hundreds of hours here) spend a lot of time and efforts here and always learning and sharing enormous amount of knowledge here on forums and so on. Kaggle providing its platform as place to share and learn and talk. And it's great place to do so. But couldn't we expect some respect in return? The data in this competition isn't provided for us, we couldn't even use it for anything beyond the competition and should delete it after that. \nAnd what should we do? Business as usual, let's compete, create and share the best models, win top-500 places and then DHS will get all of this while awarding some US-citizen for subpar solution from 501 place? How would it look and feel for everybody? What press coverage there will be? \"America the first! Winner interview from 501 place\". Will there be some awkwardness? Will you be excited to participate in this or following competitions after that?", "votes": null }, { "id": "195091", "postDate": "06/22/2017 18:10:55", "content": "Sir, I respect your expectations from Kaggle, but just think about it, even providing this kind of dataset is an uphill task and these guys have done it. It will not be a great feeling when I will see a 501st one getting interviewed but, as I said, are we here for money or learning? I am just a noob, maybe I have not spent hours as long as you, but I know the feeling when you up in the leaderboard. MONEY, yes, that is an issue but let's not make it too big to overshadow the \"beauty\" of this dataset. what do you think? :) And yes, trust me, I will be excited to have learnt that amount.
", "rawMarkdown": "Sir, I respect your expectations from Kaggle, but just think about it, even providing this kind of dataset is an uphill task and these guys have done it. It will not be a great feeling when I will see a 501st one getting interviewed but, as I said, are we here for money or learning? I am just a noob, maybe I have not spent hours as long as you, but I know the feeling when you up in the leaderboard. MONEY, yes, that is an issue but let's not make it too big to overshadow the \"beauty\" of this dataset. what do you think? :) And yes, trust me, I will be excited to have learnt that amount.", "votes": null }, { "id": "195125", "postDate": "06/22/2017 19:52:49", "content": "I see people getting more moral towards money here my friend :)
", "rawMarkdown": "I see people getting more moral towards money here my friend :)", "votes": null }, { "id": "195427", "postDate": "06/23/2017 15:07:27", "content": "I agree with DatumX. DHS is trying to do something progressive subject to solving a problem quickly under legal constraints. You wouldn't cry about a college scholarship exclusive to some demographic... or maybe you would. I see the value in the experience and access to this dataset. For the competitors who were reasonably confident that they would be in the money, perhaps you should deal with DHS directly... they seem very interested. Or you can view this as a chance to develop a proof-of-concept marketable in your home country. Skipping the contest just make you another punk claiming what they could've done... if only.
", "rawMarkdown": "I agree with DatumX. DHS is trying to do something progressive subject to solving a problem quickly under legal constraints. You wouldn't cry about a college scholarship exclusive to some demographic... or maybe you would. I see the value in the experience and access to this dataset. For the competitors who were reasonably confident that they would be in the money, perhaps you should deal with DHS directly... they seem very interested. Or you can view this as a chance to develop a proof-of-concept marketable in your home country. Skipping the contest just make you another punk claiming what they could've done... if only.", "votes": null }, { "id": "195490", "postDate": "06/23/2017 18:45:45", "content": "Not so popular opinion, but I agree with it.\nWhat they expect, that Kaggle will have doing against the law? I think there is no profit for us if the competition will be canceled. Between experience and the nothing I will choose experience.
", "rawMarkdown": "Not so popular opinion, but I agree with it.\nWhat they expect, that Kaggle will have doing against the law? I think there is no profit for us if the competition will be canceled. Between experience and the nothing I will choose experience.", "votes": null }, { "id": "195586", "postDate": "06/24/2017 05:00:29", "content": "it's not so much about money vs learning as moral principles vs discrimination.
\n\nI'd not join competition on kaggle where only citizens of certain country, race, religion or gender be eligible for prizes
", "rawMarkdown": "it's not so much about money vs learning as moral principles vs discrimination.\n\nI'd not join competition on kaggle where only citizens of certain country, race, religion or gender be eligible for prizes", "votes": null }, { "id": "195588", "postDate": "06/24/2017 05:29:38", "content": "Just in for the process of sharpening my intellect or complex thinking. A bit of money wouldn't hurt me though. But the access to this kind of data is an awesome thing in itself. The restrictions are things to deal with later - for now it's all about knowledge and as a newbie it gives an interesting start with imaging data. I like the fact that it is an community approach of solving problems. Good ideas can linger anywhere!
", "rawMarkdown": "Just in for the process of sharpening my intellect or complex thinking. A bit of money wouldn't hurt me though. But the access to this kind of data is an awesome thing in itself. The restrictions are things to deal with later - for now it's all about knowledge and as a newbie it gives an interesting start with imaging data. I like the fact that it is an community approach of solving problems. Good ideas can linger anywhere!", "votes": null }, { "id": "195603", "postDate": "06/24/2017 07:10:31", "content": "There are a TON of quality imaging data available elsewhere, including general purpose images, satellite imagery, medical imagery and much more. Learning requires fast iterations and fast feedback -- you try things, fail often, try more. This particular competition probably will be much more constrained by pure engineering issues (which isn't the bad thing to master but it may hinder learning of other things, like neural networks and so on) -- how to deal with such a bit dataset, there definitely will be much simple models with a very long training time and so on.
\n\nSo, from newbie perspective for pure learning I'd focused on smaller and simpler problems to solve. But it's only my humble opinion :)
", "rawMarkdown": "There are a TON of quality imaging data available elsewhere, including general purpose images, satellite imagery, medical imagery and much more. Learning requires fast iterations and fast feedback -- you try things, fail often, try more. This particular competition probably will be much more constrained by pure engineering issues (which isn't the bad thing to master but it may hinder learning of other things, like neural networks and so on) -- how to deal with such a bit dataset, there definitely will be much simple models with a very long training time and so on. \n\nSo, from newbie perspective for pure learning I'd focused on smaller and simpler problems to solve. But it's only my humble opinion :)", "votes": null }, { "id": "195611", "postDate": "06/24/2017 07:51:38", "content": "Sir, I respect your expectations from Kaggle, but just think about it, even providing this kind of dataset is an uphill task and these guys have done it. It will not be a great feeling when I will see a 501st one getting interviewed but, as I said, are we here for money or learning? I am just a noob, maybe I have not spent hours as long as you, but I know the feeling when you up in the leaderboard. MONEY, yes, that is an issue but let's not make it too big to overshadow the \"beauty\" of this dataset. what do you think? :) And yes, trust me, I will be excited to have learnt that amount.
\n\nIn fact, this happens most of the times in recruitment competitions when only people of certain countries are eligible for the offer. I never saw people opposing and having negative opinions about that. It's just this time when the money is involved. You could either devote yourself to the learning community or rant about the money for which you are not eligible. And my friend, the restriction is ONLY ON MONEY!
", "rawMarkdown": "Sir, I respect your expectations from Kaggle, but just think about it, even providing this kind of dataset is an uphill task and these guys have done it. It will not be a great feeling when I will see a 501st one getting interviewed but, as I said, are we here for money or learning? I am just a noob, maybe I have not spent hours as long as you, but I know the feeling when you up in the leaderboard. MONEY, yes, that is an issue but let's not make it too big to overshadow the \"beauty\" of this dataset. what do you think? :) And yes, trust me, I will be excited to have learnt that amount.\n\n In fact, this happens most of the times in recruitment competitions when only people of certain countries are eligible for the offer. I never saw people opposing and having negative opinions about that. It's just this time when the money is involved. You could either devote yourself to the learning community or rant about the money for which you are not eligible. And my friend, the restriction is ONLY ON MONEY!", "votes": null }, { "id": "195612", "postDate": "06/24/2017 08:01:18", "content": "Well, that's just a perspective, my friend, just like any other situation. In fact, this happens most of the times in recruitment competitions when only people of certain countries are eligible for the offer. I never saw people opposing and having negative opinions about that. It's just this time when the money is involved. You could either devote yourself to the learning community or rant about the money for which you are not eligible. And my friend, the restriction is ONLY ON MONEY!
", "rawMarkdown": "Well, that's just a perspective, my friend, just like any other situation. In fact, this happens most of the times in recruitment competitions when only people of certain countries are eligible for the offer. I never saw people opposing and having negative opinions about that. It's just this time when the money is involved. You could either devote yourself to the learning community or rant about the money for which you are not eligible. And my friend, the restriction is ONLY ON MONEY!", "votes": null }, { "id": "195616", "postDate": "06/24/2017 08:15:02", "content": "@DatumX Unlike the recruiting competitions, is it so difficult here to transfer money to deserving winner? Don't explain me \"America COMPETES Act\"
", "rawMarkdown": "DatumX Unlike the recruiting competitions, is it so difficult here to transfer money to deserving winner? Don't explain me \"America COMPETES Act\"", "votes": null }, { "id": "195663", "postDate": "06/24/2017 11:58:48", "content": "I've got your position (from first message, even though I didn't answer anything). You are right -- there is a lot to learn from this data and solutions that could be developed here on forums and kernels and everything that great about Kaggle. However, there are enormous amount of things and ways to learn elsewhere, even in narrow space of image processing and deep learning. I talking only for myself here: if I'd participate in competition with rules I disagree with then (I think) there will be a strong signal to Kaggle that such rules are normal and they will continue to host more competitions for US citizens, for Russians, for Chinese, for Guatemalans or anybody else expecting that everybody will be happy \"to learn\". If I (and hopefully many more) will refuse to take part then Kaggle will probably think twice agreeing to such terms. That's it.
\n\nAnd yes, even small probability to win big money is a huge driving factor, at least for me. It is complete different story when you concentrate all your abilities and time to compete as hard as possible if there is your yearly income at stake (or 5 year like in this competition) than if you do it in leisure time as \"learning\". And this is totally fine, nothing to shame.
", "rawMarkdown": "I've got your position (from first message, even though I didn't answer anything). You are right -- there is a lot to learn from this data and solutions that could be developed here on forums and kernels and everything that great about Kaggle. However, there are enormous amount of things and ways to learn elsewhere, even in narrow space of image processing and deep learning. I talking only for myself here: if I'd participate in competition with rules I disagree with then (I think) there will be a strong signal to Kaggle that such rules are normal and they will continue to host more competitions for US citizens, for Russians, for Chinese, for Guatemalans or anybody else expecting that everybody will be happy \"to learn\". If I (and hopefully many more) will refuse to take part then Kaggle will probably think twice agreeing to such terms. That's it. \n\nAnd yes, even small probability to win big money is a huge driving factor, at least for me. It is complete different story when you concentrate all your abilities and time to compete as hard as possible if there is your yearly income at stake (or 5 year like in this competition) than if you do it in leisure time as \"learning\". And this is totally fine, nothing to shame.", "votes": null }, { "id": "195750", "postDate": "06/24/2017 21:48:14", "content": "I think folks are more disgusted with the principle of it all. Kaggle messed up here really bad!
\n\nThis competition should have been private or by invite only (after confirming participants meet citizenship requirements).
", "rawMarkdown": "I think folks are more disgusted with the principle of it all. Kaggle messed up here really bad!\n\nThis competition should have been private or by invite only (after confirming participants meet citizenship requirements).", "votes": null }, { "id": "196156", "postDate": "06/26/2017 13:21:16", "content": "People's motive to be in Kaggle could be different. Some for learning and some for other reasons including money. Most of the time people who reaches the top of the leader board are already trained and expert Data Scientists. For them incentive for learning is not much. \nThe question here is not about money, but about fairness. You can see a lot of noise in the discussion board about the rules. Do you think every one who is making the noise is expecting money out of the competition? I don't think so. It is an effort to prevent unjust practices coming into this esteemed platform.
", "rawMarkdown": "People's motive to be in Kaggle could be different. Some for learning and some for other reasons including money. Most of the time people who reaches the top of the leader board are already trained and expert Data Scientists. For them incentive for learning is not much. \nThe question here is not about money, but about fairness. You can see a lot of noise in the discussion board about the rules. Do you think every one who is making the noise is expecting money out of the competition? I don't think so. It is an effort to prevent unjust practices coming into this esteemed platform.", "votes": null } ], "comments": [ { "id": 195082, "author_name": "ceperaang", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/22/2017 18:02:31", "content": "How far could it go under \"Are we here for money\" motto? We (I'm not the most active competitor but I already spent couple hundreds of hours here) spend a lot of time and efforts here and always learning and sharing enormous amount of knowledge here on forums and so on. Kaggle providing its platform as place to share and learn and talk. And it's great place to do so. But couldn't we expect some respect in return? The data in this competition isn't provided for us, we couldn't even use it for anything beyond the competition and should delete it after that. \nAnd what should we do? Business as usual, let's compete, create and share the best models, win top-500 places and then DHS will get all of this while awarding some US-citizen for subpar solution from 501 place? How would it look and feel for everybody? What press coverage there will be? \"America the first! Winner interview from 501 place\". Will there be some awkwardness? Will you be excited to participate in this or following competitions after that?
", "votes": null, "replies": [ { "id": 195611, "author_name": "janpreets", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/24/2017 07:51:38", "content": "Sir, I respect your expectations from Kaggle, but just think about it, even providing this kind of dataset is an uphill task and these guys have done it. It will not be a great feeling when I will see a 501st one getting interviewed but, as I said, are we here for money or learning? I am just a noob, maybe I have not spent hours as long as you, but I know the feeling when you up in the leaderboard. MONEY, yes, that is an issue but let's not make it too big to overshadow the \"beauty\" of this dataset. what do you think? :) And yes, trust me, I will be excited to have learnt that amount.
\n\nIn fact, this happens most of the times in recruitment competitions when only people of certain countries are eligible for the offer. I never saw people opposing and having negative opinions about that. It's just this time when the money is involved. You could either devote yourself to the learning community or rant about the money for which you are not eligible. And my friend, the restriction is ONLY ON MONEY!
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195616, "author_name": "ascending", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/24/2017 08:15:02", "content": "@DatumX Unlike the recruiting competitions, is it so difficult here to transfer money to deserving winner? Don't explain me \"America COMPETES Act\"
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195663, "author_name": "ceperaang", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/24/2017 11:58:48", "content": "I've got your position (from first message, even though I didn't answer anything). You are right -- there is a lot to learn from this data and solutions that could be developed here on forums and kernels and everything that great about Kaggle. However, there are enormous amount of things and ways to learn elsewhere, even in narrow space of image processing and deep learning. I talking only for myself here: if I'd participate in competition with rules I disagree with then (I think) there will be a strong signal to Kaggle that such rules are normal and they will continue to host more competitions for US citizens, for Russians, for Chinese, for Guatemalans or anybody else expecting that everybody will be happy \"to learn\". If I (and hopefully many more) will refuse to take part then Kaggle will probably think twice agreeing to such terms. That's it.
\n\nAnd yes, even small probability to win big money is a huge driving factor, at least for me. It is complete different story when you concentrate all your abilities and time to compete as hard as possible if there is your yearly income at stake (or 5 year like in this competition) than if you do it in leisure time as \"learning\". And this is totally fine, nothing to shame.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 195091, "author_name": "janpreets", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/22/2017 18:10:55", "content": "Sir, I respect your expectations from Kaggle, but just think about it, even providing this kind of dataset is an uphill task and these guys have done it. It will not be a great feeling when I will see a 501st one getting interviewed but, as I said, are we here for money or learning? I am just a noob, maybe I have not spent hours as long as you, but I know the feeling when you up in the leaderboard. MONEY, yes, that is an issue but let's not make it too big to overshadow the \"beauty\" of this dataset. what do you think? :) And yes, trust me, I will be excited to have learnt that amount.
", "votes": null, "replies": [ { "id": 195586, "author_name": "dmytropoplavskiy", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/24/2017 05:00:29", "content": "it's not so much about money vs learning as moral principles vs discrimination.
\n\nI'd not join competition on kaggle where only citizens of certain country, race, religion or gender be eligible for prizes
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195612, "author_name": "janpreets", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/24/2017 08:01:18", "content": "Well, that's just a perspective, my friend, just like any other situation. In fact, this happens most of the times in recruitment competitions when only people of certain countries are eligible for the offer. I never saw people opposing and having negative opinions about that. It's just this time when the money is involved. You could either devote yourself to the learning community or rant about the money for which you are not eligible. And my friend, the restriction is ONLY ON MONEY!
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 196156, "author_name": "binilg", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/26/2017 13:21:16", "content": "People's motive to be in Kaggle could be different. Some for learning and some for other reasons including money. Most of the time people who reaches the top of the leader board are already trained and expert Data Scientists. For them incentive for learning is not much. \nThe question here is not about money, but about fairness. You can see a lot of noise in the discussion board about the rules. Do you think every one who is making the noise is expecting money out of the competition? I don't think so. It is an effort to prevent unjust practices coming into this esteemed platform.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 195125, "author_name": "janpreets", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/22/2017 19:52:49", "content": "I see people getting more moral towards money here my friend :)
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195427, "author_name": "mlhammer2logit2quit", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/23/2017 15:07:27", "content": "I agree with DatumX. DHS is trying to do something progressive subject to solving a problem quickly under legal constraints. You wouldn't cry about a college scholarship exclusive to some demographic... or maybe you would. I see the value in the experience and access to this dataset. For the competitors who were reasonably confident that they would be in the money, perhaps you should deal with DHS directly... they seem very interested. Or you can view this as a chance to develop a proof-of-concept marketable in your home country. Skipping the contest just make you another punk claiming what they could've done... if only.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195490, "author_name": "uhfband", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/23/2017 18:45:45", "content": "Not so popular opinion, but I agree with it.\nWhat they expect, that Kaggle will have doing against the law? I think there is no profit for us if the competition will be canceled. Between experience and the nothing I will choose experience.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195588, "author_name": "mesmoiron", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/24/2017 05:29:38", "content": "Just in for the process of sharpening my intellect or complex thinking. A bit of money wouldn't hurt me though. But the access to this kind of data is an awesome thing in itself. The restrictions are things to deal with later - for now it's all about knowledge and as a newbie it gives an interesting start with imaging data. I like the fact that it is an community approach of solving problems. Good ideas can linger anywhere!
", "votes": null, "replies": [ { "id": 195603, "author_name": "ceperaang", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/24/2017 07:10:31", "content": "There are a TON of quality imaging data available elsewhere, including general purpose images, satellite imagery, medical imagery and much more. Learning requires fast iterations and fast feedback -- you try things, fail often, try more. This particular competition probably will be much more constrained by pure engineering issues (which isn't the bad thing to master but it may hinder learning of other things, like neural networks and so on) -- how to deal with such a bit dataset, there definitely will be much simple models with a very long training time and so on.
\n\nSo, from newbie perspective for pure learning I'd focused on smaller and simpler problems to solve. But it's only my humble opinion :)
", "votes": null, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 195750, "author_name": "engant", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/24/2017 21:48:14", "content": "I think folks are more disgusted with the principle of it all. Kaggle messed up here really bad!
\n\nThis competition should have been private or by invite only (after confirming participants meet citizenship requirements).
", "votes": null, "replies": [] } ], "raw_markdown_by_id": { "195066": "I think it's not much in the hands of kaggle to decide whom should they give money or not. We must consider that this is a government's data and every government has some policies. Shouldn't we respect the policies and focus on the enormous and AWESOME data provided by Kaggle? After all, in the place, we are here for learning, aren't we? PS: Thoughts of a Kaggle Noob. Please be polite :)", "195082": "How far could it go under \"Are we here for money\" motto? We (I'm not the most active competitor but I already spent couple hundreds of hours here) spend a lot of time and efforts here and always learning and sharing enormous amount of knowledge here on forums and so on. Kaggle providing its platform as place to share and learn and talk. And it's great place to do so. But couldn't we expect some respect in return? The data in this competition isn't provided for us, we couldn't even use it for anything beyond the competition and should delete it after that. \nAnd what should we do? Business as usual, let's compete, create and share the best models, win top-500 places and then DHS will get all of this while awarding some US-citizen for subpar solution from 501 place? How would it look and feel for everybody? What press coverage there will be? \"America the first! Winner interview from 501 place\". Will there be some awkwardness? Will you be excited to participate in this or following competitions after that?", "195091": "Sir, I respect your expectations from Kaggle, but just think about it, even providing this kind of dataset is an uphill task and these guys have done it. It will not be a great feeling when I will see a 501st one getting interviewed but, as I said, are we here for money or learning? I am just a noob, maybe I have not spent hours as long as you, but I know the feeling when you up in the leaderboard. MONEY, yes, that is an issue but let's not make it too big to overshadow the \"beauty\" of this dataset. what do you think? :) And yes, trust me, I will be excited to have learnt that amount.", "195125": "I see people getting more moral towards money here my friend :)", "195427": "I agree with DatumX. DHS is trying to do something progressive subject to solving a problem quickly under legal constraints. You wouldn't cry about a college scholarship exclusive to some demographic... or maybe you would. I see the value in the experience and access to this dataset. For the competitors who were reasonably confident that they would be in the money, perhaps you should deal with DHS directly... they seem very interested. Or you can view this as a chance to develop a proof-of-concept marketable in your home country. Skipping the contest just make you another punk claiming what they could've done... if only.", "195490": "Not so popular opinion, but I agree with it.\nWhat they expect, that Kaggle will have doing against the law? I think there is no profit for us if the competition will be canceled. Between experience and the nothing I will choose experience.", "195586": "it's not so much about money vs learning as moral principles vs discrimination.\n\nI'd not join competition on kaggle where only citizens of certain country, race, religion or gender be eligible for prizes", "195588": "Just in for the process of sharpening my intellect or complex thinking. A bit of money wouldn't hurt me though. But the access to this kind of data is an awesome thing in itself. The restrictions are things to deal with later - for now it's all about knowledge and as a newbie it gives an interesting start with imaging data. I like the fact that it is an community approach of solving problems. Good ideas can linger anywhere!", "195603": "There are a TON of quality imaging data available elsewhere, including general purpose images, satellite imagery, medical imagery and much more. Learning requires fast iterations and fast feedback -- you try things, fail often, try more. This particular competition probably will be much more constrained by pure engineering issues (which isn't the bad thing to master but it may hinder learning of other things, like neural networks and so on) -- how to deal with such a bit dataset, there definitely will be much simple models with a very long training time and so on. \n\nSo, from newbie perspective for pure learning I'd focused on smaller and simpler problems to solve. But it's only my humble opinion :)", "195611": "Sir, I respect your expectations from Kaggle, but just think about it, even providing this kind of dataset is an uphill task and these guys have done it. It will not be a great feeling when I will see a 501st one getting interviewed but, as I said, are we here for money or learning? I am just a noob, maybe I have not spent hours as long as you, but I know the feeling when you up in the leaderboard. MONEY, yes, that is an issue but let's not make it too big to overshadow the \"beauty\" of this dataset. what do you think? :) And yes, trust me, I will be excited to have learnt that amount.\n\n In fact, this happens most of the times in recruitment competitions when only people of certain countries are eligible for the offer. I never saw people opposing and having negative opinions about that. It's just this time when the money is involved. You could either devote yourself to the learning community or rant about the money for which you are not eligible. And my friend, the restriction is ONLY ON MONEY!", "195612": "Well, that's just a perspective, my friend, just like any other situation. In fact, this happens most of the times in recruitment competitions when only people of certain countries are eligible for the offer. I never saw people opposing and having negative opinions about that. It's just this time when the money is involved. You could either devote yourself to the learning community or rant about the money for which you are not eligible. And my friend, the restriction is ONLY ON MONEY!", "195616": "DatumX Unlike the recruiting competitions, is it so difficult here to transfer money to deserving winner? Don't explain me \"America COMPETES Act\"", "195663": "I've got your position (from first message, even though I didn't answer anything). You are right -- there is a lot to learn from this data and solutions that could be developed here on forums and kernels and everything that great about Kaggle. However, there are enormous amount of things and ways to learn elsewhere, even in narrow space of image processing and deep learning. I talking only for myself here: if I'd participate in competition with rules I disagree with then (I think) there will be a strong signal to Kaggle that such rules are normal and they will continue to host more competitions for US citizens, for Russians, for Chinese, for Guatemalans or anybody else expecting that everybody will be happy \"to learn\". If I (and hopefully many more) will refuse to take part then Kaggle will probably think twice agreeing to such terms. That's it. \n\nAnd yes, even small probability to win big money is a huge driving factor, at least for me. It is complete different story when you concentrate all your abilities and time to compete as hard as possible if there is your yearly income at stake (or 5 year like in this competition) than if you do it in leisure time as \"learning\". And this is totally fine, nothing to shame.", "195750": "I think folks are more disgusted with the principle of it all. Kaggle messed up here really bad!\n\nThis competition should have been private or by invite only (after confirming participants meet citizenship requirements).", "196156": "People's motive to be in Kaggle could be different. Some for learning and some for other reasons including money. Most of the time people who reaches the top of the leader board are already trained and expert Data Scientists. For them incentive for learning is not much. \nThe question here is not about money, but about fairness. You can see a lot of noise in the discussion board about the rules. Do you think every one who is making the noise is expecting money out of the competition? I don't think so. It is an effort to prevent unjust practices coming into this esteemed platform." }, "source": "meta" }