> Members of the Kaggle community who are not United States Citizens or legal permanent residents at the time of entry are allowed to participate in the Competition but are not eligible to win prizes. If a team has one or more members who are not prize eligible, then the entire team is not prize eligible.
\n\nI think this is total nonsense. Are you really want to get the time of the best of the world datascientists with such rules? This is total bullshit and don't believe I see it in rules after outrage in the previous competition where Chinese people were excluded and also DSTL's discriminatory rules.
\n\nGo create your own useless competition site no one will ever visit and compete with yourself if you want such rules! I think the best response from the community should be to refuse to participate at all.
", "messages": [ { "id": 195026, "postDate": "2017-06-22T16:30:31.567Z", "content": "> Members of the Kaggle community who are not United States Citizens or legal permanent residents at the time of entry are allowed to participate in the Competition but are not eligible to win prizes. If a team has one or more members who are not prize eligible, then the entire team is not prize eligible.
\n\nI think this is total nonsense. Are you really want to get the time of the best of the world datascientists with such rules? This is total bullshit and don't believe I see it in rules after outrage in the previous competition where Chinese people were excluded and also DSTL's discriminatory rules.
\n\nGo create your own useless competition site no one will ever visit and compete with yourself if you want such rules! I think the best response from the community should be to refuse to participate at all.
", "rawMarkdown": "> Members of the Kaggle community who are not United States Citizens or legal permanent residents at the time of entry are allowed to participate in the Competition but are not eligible to win prizes. If a team has one or more members who are not prize eligible, then the entire team is not prize eligible.\n\nI think this is total nonsense. Are you really want to get the time of the best of the world datascientists with such rules? This is total bullshit and don't believe I see it in rules after outrage in the previous competition where Chinese people were excluded and also DSTL's discriminatory rules. \n\nGo create your own useless competition site no one will ever visit and compete with yourself if you want such rules! I think the best response from the community should be to refuse to participate at all. ", "votes": 984 }, { "id": 195031, "postDate": "2017-06-22T16:41:05.453Z", "content": "This is really frustrating, that this shady business is becoming more and more popular in the scientific community:
\n\nRussian data scientist unable to claim £12,000 prize in Brit competition
", "rawMarkdown": "This is really frustrating, that this shady business is becoming more and more popular in the scientific community:\n\n [Russian data scientist unable to claim £12,000 prize in Brit competition][1]\n\n\n [1]: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/05/russian_denied_dstl_data_sci_challenge_prize/", "votes": 152, "replies": [ { "id": 195347, "postDate": "2017-06-23T10:21:17.387Z", "content": "That's frustrating and sad at all. That policy games going nowhere.
", "rawMarkdown": "That's frustrating and sad at all. That policy games going nowhere.", "votes": 5 }, { "id": 195618, "postDate": "2017-06-24T08:18:22.690Z", "content": "I'm sorry for you that you had to face such kind of discrimination.
", "rawMarkdown": "I'm sorry for you that you had to face such kind of discrimination.", "votes": 5 }, { "id": 196705, "postDate": "2017-06-28T00:48:25.757Z", "content": "\n\n\nThis is really frustrating, that this shady business is becoming more\n and more popular in the scientific community:
\n
Residence-based eligibility requirements have always been quite common in science funding competitions.
\n\nFor example, the NIH has them:
\n\nhttps://grants.nih.gov/grants/policy/nihgps/html5/section_12/12.3_eligibility.htm
", "rawMarkdown": "> This is really frustrating, that this shady business is becoming more\n> and more popular in the scientific community:\n\nResidence-based eligibility requirements have always been quite common in science funding competitions.\n\nFor example, the NIH has them:\n\nhttps://grants.nih.gov/grants/policy/nihgps/html5/section_12/12.3_eligibility.htm\n\n", "votes": 2 }, { "id": 216204, "postDate": "2017-08-24T19:29:16.473Z", "content": "It's really very stupid to use such an indexes like corruption level in estimating of ML competition.\nCorruption Level - is not an estimate of some real-world value, it's can be verify or cross-validated, it's some kind of magic or religion. let's take some noisy parameters and make linear regression to calculate corruption level. Oo China is pretty good. Lets change some coeeficients - China is not so good already.\nRussia had a score of less than 37 on the Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index for 2014. \nOMG, such kind of biased, unreliable, noisy, magic estimator of country is good (joke) for music or sport competition, but not for competiotion in ML.
", "rawMarkdown": "It's really very stupid to use such an indexes like corruption level in estimating of ML competition.\nCorruption Level - is not an estimate of some real-world value, it's can be verify or cross-validated, it's some kind of magic or religion. let's take some noisy parameters and make linear regression to calculate corruption level. Oo China is pretty good. Lets change some coeeficients - China is not so good already.\nRussia had a score of less than 37 on the Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index for 2014. \nOMG, such kind of biased, unreliable, noisy, magic estimator of country is good (joke) for music or sport competition, but not for competiotion in ML.\n", "votes": 4 }, { "id": 562786, "postDate": "2019-06-27T14:37:28.837Z", "content": "totally agree
", "rawMarkdown": "totally agree" }, { "id": 753864, "postDate": "2020-02-22T18:44:14.060Z", "content": "\n", "rawMarkdown": "> **Vladimir Iglovikov wrote:**\n> \n> This is really frustrating, that this shady business is becoming more and more popular in the scientific community:\n> \n> [Russian data scientist unable to claim £12,000 prize in Brit competition][1]\n> \n> \n [1]: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/05/russian_denied_dstl_data_sci_challenge_prize/\n\n" } ] }, { "id": 196206, "postDate": "2017-06-26T16:27:29.640Z", "content": "Vladimir Iglovikov wrote:
\n \nThis is really frustrating, that this shady business is becoming more and more popular in the scientific community:
\n \nRussian data scientist unable to claim £12,000 prize in Brit competition
\n
I think the real mistake Kaggle made here was trying to have it both ways. You cannot have a competition with two classes of competitors, where some compete for money and points while others just for points. And how exactly are Kagglers supposed to confirm someone's legal residency status when forming teams?
\n\nI personally think it's perfectly fine for competition sponsors that pay the bills to impose whatever restrictions they want (or in this case forced to by law), but then it has to be a closed competition where you have to prove eligibility before you can compete, and no Kaggle points should be awarded. If you want access to the entire talent pool, you have to drop the restrictions, or live with the far lower participation rate of closed competitions.
", "rawMarkdown": "I think the real mistake Kaggle made here was trying to have it both ways. You cannot have a competition with two classes of competitors, where some compete for money and points while others just for points. And how exactly are Kagglers supposed to confirm someone's legal residency status when forming teams?\n\nI personally think it's perfectly fine for competition sponsors that pay the bills to impose whatever restrictions they want (or in this case forced to by law), but then it has to be a closed competition where you have to prove eligibility before you can compete, and no Kaggle points should be awarded. If you want access to the entire talent pool, you have to drop the restrictions, or live with the far lower participation rate of closed competitions.", "votes": 76, "replies": [ { "id": 199341, "postDate": "2017-07-05T11:27:51.200Z", "content": "I totally agree!
", "rawMarkdown": "I totally agree!", "votes": 6 }, { "id": 234908, "postDate": "2017-10-24T09:57:47.643Z", "content": "Excellent point
", "rawMarkdown": "Excellent point", "votes": 1 } ] }, { "id": 236069, "postDate": "2017-10-26T16:31:37.500Z", "content": "I think Elon Musk said something that, taken slightly out of context, could contribute to this conversation.
\n\n“This is not out of some desire of SpaceX to just hire people with green cards,” Musk said. “It’s because we’re not allowed to do anything else. This is not a wise policy for the US, because there are so many talented people all around the world that we would love to have work at our company. But unless they can somehow get a green card, we’re legally prevented from hiring” them. (sic) (source, below)
\n\nThough I have no legal experience, I would speculate that there is much complexity surrounding the legality of paying money to foreign participants. This isn't just inclusive to this event; this is setting precedent. I mean, look how the probe is going with respect to Russian interference in 2016 election. As people are finding out that Russian politicians and citizens were even meeting with American politicians, we are stuck with a question about what motivations are, and how it affected the outcome.
\n\nThe common person does not understand data science. The common person does not understand Kaggle. The common person does not understand Artificial Intelligence, and I dare speculate that the common person, might actually fears concepts such as AI or the implications of the \"Roko's Basilisk\" thought experiment.
\n\nAnd mistake me not, for I do not disparage my fellow for lack of intelligence. As a wise man once said, in a popular movie:
\n\n\"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow.\" (source, below)
\n\nNow imagine that misled ignorance in the hands of dubious, click-bait news media. Imagine the potential for spin and ad-revenue as the common person finds out that US dollars are leaving the country, and potentially falling into the hands of one of our so-called \"political rivals\" abroad (sorry, international community; we love you, but your governments and our governments are, well, occasionally a little misguided).
\n\nImagine the hypothetical \"public outcry\" if US citizens were to find out that our Department of Homeland Security paid a group of Russian hackers a million dollars to optimize our search algorithms for airport scanners (insert scary-sounding technical explanation, here). The common person doesn't care that we are more safe. They only see, \"words, words, words, Department of Homeland Security, words, words, Russian Hackers, words, paid a million bucks, words, words, words\" and they don't like that because a million dollars is a lot of money (to them) and the Russian Hackers are \"the bad guy\".
\n\nIt's not about the ends justifies the means. It's about \"image\", and sadly, the people in power care more about \"image\" than results. In short, when it comes to scientific advancement in humanity: same shit, different day.
\n\nSources:
\nhttps://qz.com/794101/elon-musk-explains-why-he-doesnt-hire-much-foreign-talent-at-spacex/\nhttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119654/quotes
Thank you for sharing!
", "rawMarkdown": "Thank you for sharing!", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 269867, "postDate": "2018-01-17T12:29:02.093Z", "content": "Very thoughtful. Thanks.
", "rawMarkdown": "Very thoughtful. Thanks.", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 293692, "postDate": "2018-03-10T11:34:08.840Z", "content": "This is very thoughtful.
", "rawMarkdown": "This is very thoughtful. " }, { "id": 353285, "postDate": "2018-07-06T11:07:05.113Z", "content": "Well said.
", "rawMarkdown": "Well said." }, { "id": 403996, "postDate": "2018-10-15T04:10:50.010Z", "content": "well said
", "rawMarkdown": "well said" }, { "id": 406703, "postDate": "2018-10-19T17:15:16.997Z", "content": "well said
", "rawMarkdown": "well said" }, { "id": 418630, "postDate": "2018-11-10T09:59:54.187Z", "content": "Well said
", "rawMarkdown": "Well said" }, { "id": 484366, "postDate": "2019-03-05T22:22:20.817Z", "content": "Thank you for sharing!
", "rawMarkdown": "Thank you for sharing!" }, { "id": 515732, "postDate": "2019-04-13T03:16:58.660Z", "content": "Well said
", "rawMarkdown": "Well said", "votes": -1 }, { "id": 523992, "postDate": "2019-04-27T15:48:17.610Z", "content": "Thank you!
", "rawMarkdown": "Thank you!" }, { "id": 528776, "postDate": "2019-05-08T14:30:23.553Z", "content": "Well said
", "rawMarkdown": "Well said" }, { "id": 559321, "postDate": "2019-06-23T22:37:42.183Z", "content": "Well said
", "rawMarkdown": "Well said" }, { "id": 576845, "postDate": "2019-07-16T05:04:12.637Z", "content": "Well said
", "rawMarkdown": "Well said" }, { "id": 604630, "postDate": "2019-08-21T15:30:54.797Z", "content": "Thanks !
", "rawMarkdown": "Thanks !" }, { "id": 623625, "postDate": "2019-09-11T06:48:09.507Z", "content": "Thanks!
", "rawMarkdown": "Thanks!" }, { "id": 626682, "postDate": "2019-09-14T17:20:42.660Z", "content": "Thanks!
", "rawMarkdown": "Thanks!" }, { "id": 638137, "postDate": "2019-10-01T15:07:06.250Z", "content": "agreed
", "rawMarkdown": "agreed" }, { "id": 666571, "postDate": "2019-11-06T08:33:56.960Z", "content": "Great said!
", "rawMarkdown": "Great said!" }, { "id": 668928, "postDate": "2019-11-09T05:34:04.027Z", "content": "Thanks a lot! That helped me a lot.
", "rawMarkdown": "Thanks a lot! That helped me a lot." }, { "id": 708961, "postDate": "2020-01-02T21:52:49.837Z", "content": "Well said!
", "rawMarkdown": "Well said!" }, { "id": 711019, "postDate": "2020-01-05T15:08:17.200Z", "content": "Well said.
", "rawMarkdown": "Well said.", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 726363, "postDate": "2020-01-23T01:27:56.713Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "isDeleted": true }, { "id": 775662, "postDate": "2020-03-16T23:22:11.937Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "isDeleted": true }, { "id": 805062, "postDate": "2020-04-12T09:55:17.270Z", "content": "agreed
", "rawMarkdown": "agreed " } ] }, { "id": 195041, "postDate": "2017-06-22T17:03:52.700Z", "content": "That is a shame, that Google, who now owns the Kaggle agreed to such terms. It means they got theirs cut for organizing this competition without any consideration of how frustrating and damaging to the community such discrimination could be. One of the most profitable companies in the world buying the Kaggle and willing to ruin reputation that was built for years as place where anybody could take part and compete based on their merits not origin. And for what? For several millions $ (at best)?
\n\nI don't understand what reaction are you expecting. \"We don't have anything to do with that, there are some arbitrary rules of DHS and we couldn't resist to comply with them\". No. You shouldn't trade respect and trust from WORLDWIDE AND INTERNATIONAL community to hosts competition with such rules. Just don't.
\n\nIt is hard to overstate how frustrated and enraged I am and. surely, many others. Just... Doh, I don't have any more non-obscene words for it.
", "rawMarkdown": "That is a shame, that Google, who now owns the Kaggle agreed to such terms. It means they got theirs cut for organizing this competition without any consideration of how frustrating and damaging to the community such discrimination could be. One of the most profitable companies in the world buying the Kaggle and willing to ruin reputation that was built for years as place where anybody could take part and compete based on their merits not origin. And for what? For several millions $ (at best)? \n\nI don't understand what reaction are you expecting. \"We don't have anything to do with that, there are some arbitrary rules of DHS and we couldn't resist to comply with them\". No. You shouldn't trade respect and trust from WORLDWIDE AND INTERNATIONAL community to hosts competition with such rules. Just don't. \n\nIt is hard to overstate how frustrated and enraged I am and. surely, many others. Just... Doh, I don't have any more non-obscene words for it.", "votes": 76 }, { "id": 195038, "postDate": "2017-06-22T16:51:55.623Z", "content": "I guess only non-US citizens can deeply understand how frustrating it is to go through the US airport security. However, we don't have the motivation to solve this problem here.
", "rawMarkdown": "I guess only non-US citizens can deeply understand how frustrating it is to go through the US airport security. However, we don't have the motivation to solve this problem here.", "votes": 40, "replies": [ { "id": 195040, "postDate": "2017-06-22T17:01:59.210Z", "content": "(With respect to the current rules I am eligible to claim prize money if I win, so this message is not about how I am jealous or some other mental issues. I am just frustrated when it comes to discrimination in a scientific community)
\n\nThe motivation for every competition is knowledge and fun. Money is an optional bonus.
\n\nI understand, secrets, security and everything in the mind of the organizers is extremely important. Sure. But leave it at work. This is different environment. This is scientific community and science is above all of this.
\n\nAnother thing:
\n\nQuestions to Kaggle admins:
\n\n@Vladimir, you made a great point.
", "rawMarkdown": "@Vladimir, you made a great point.", "votes": 7 }, { "id": 195044, "postDate": "2017-06-22T17:11:21.053Z", "content": "@Vladimir, by a quick look. Probably 33-35 out of top 40 Kagglers doesn't seem to be US citizens or permanent residents. That's more than 80%.
", "rawMarkdown": "@Vladimir, by a quick look. Probably 33-35 out of top 40 Kagglers doesn't seem to be US citizens or permanent residents. That's more than 80%. ", "votes": 29 }, { "id": 195046, "postDate": "2017-06-22T17:13:45.923Z", "content": "It's more strange because It is not about \"secrets, security\": everybody has access to the dataset, private (at the future) and public score, discussions and so on. Hence, motivation is more than unclear for me.
", "rawMarkdown": "It's more strange because It is not about \"secrets, security\": everybody has access to the dataset, private (at the future) and public score, discussions and so on. Hence, motivation is more than unclear for me.", "votes": 16 }, { "id": 195179, "postDate": "2017-06-22T22:12:23.310Z", "content": "+1 Vladimir\nI didn't expect such discriminatory rules in data science community and scientific mindset people.
\n\nWhat a shame !
", "rawMarkdown": "+1 Vladimir\nI didn't expect such discriminatory rules in data science community and scientific mindset people.\n\nWhat a shame !", "votes": 2 }, { "id": 195553, "postDate": "2017-06-24T00:56:47.100Z", "content": "Some statistics if anyone needs: https://www.kaggle.com/andreyg/top-100-kaggle-users-by-country
", "rawMarkdown": "Some statistics if anyone needs: https://www.kaggle.com/andreyg/top-100-kaggle-users-by-country", "votes": 3 }, { "id": 196001, "postDate": "2017-06-26T02:38:03.367Z", "content": "As far as I know, there are many kaggler (student, researcher, etc.) living in US who aren't not citizen or legally permanent resident.
", "rawMarkdown": "As far as I know, there are many kaggler (student, researcher, etc.) living in US who aren't not citizen or legally permanent resident.", "votes": 2 }, { "id": 196189, "postDate": "2017-06-26T14:54:33.207Z", "content": "exactly!
", "rawMarkdown": "exactly!" }, { "id": 196250, "postDate": "2017-06-26T20:12:55.297Z", "rawMarkdown": "" }, { "id": 199157, "postDate": "2017-07-04T19:23:58.263Z", "content": "@Dawnbreaker, you're correct, but they technically aren't allowed to work for government organizations like the NSA. I get the frustration, but keep in mind the TSA probably has it's own regulations it needs to follow. I think it's a nice start that they're doing this in the first place.
", "rawMarkdown": "@Dawnbreaker, you're correct, but they *technically* aren't allowed to work for government organizations like the NSA. I get the frustration, but keep in mind the TSA probably has it's own regulations it needs to follow. I think it's a nice start that they're doing this in the first place. " }, { "id": 235338, "postDate": "2017-10-25T07:00:40.117Z", "content": "@Serigne salut serigne je vois tu es sénégalais intéressé aux data, mon email diao.ibrahimat@gmail.com, on pourra discuter.
", "rawMarkdown": "@Serigne salut serigne je vois tu es sénégalais intéressé aux data, mon email diao.ibrahimat@gmail.com, on pourra discuter." } ] }, { "id": 195329, "postDate": "2017-06-23T09:20:27.743Z", "content": "What's more funny is they decided to host the competition on a website started by an Australian!
", "rawMarkdown": "What's more funny is they decided to host the competition on a website started by an Australian! ", "votes": 45, "replies": [ { "id": 199337, "postDate": "2017-07-05T10:51:54.273Z", "content": "I didn't know that! You're right --- the wikipedia page mentions Kaggle started in Melbourne (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaggle)
", "rawMarkdown": "I didn't know that! You're right --- the wikipedia page mentions Kaggle started in Melbourne (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaggle)", "votes": 1 } ] }, { "id": 196096, "postDate": "2017-06-26T11:00:36.237Z", "content": "Simply do not enter into this competition even if you are eligible. This kind of competitions should not be allowed on Kaggle. We are here to build a data science community regardless the race and nationality. I believe this should not be overlooked by no means.
", "rawMarkdown": "Simply do not enter into this competition even if you are eligible. This kind of competitions should not be allowed on Kaggle. We are here to build a data science community regardless the race and nationality. I believe this should not be overlooked by no means.", "votes": 38, "replies": [ { "id": 212870, "postDate": "2017-08-12T23:29:15.010Z", "content": "That's a completely unrealistic stance to take. This isn't a case of discrimination, its a case of crappy, antiquated government budgeting rules. You aren't going to change those by taking a principled stand and boycotting this competition (which wouldn't work anyway because with this large of a cash prize there will be enough entrants that noone will notice anyway). You only show the stupidity of it by winning the competition as a non-U.S. citizen and then refusing to part with your code unless you are paid.
\n\nIn all likelihood you'll be skipped over and not paid. But the point will have been made, as others have noted previously on this thread, that the best solution is not the one the government ended up with. And that will make legislators sit up and take notice in a way no half-hearted boycott ever could.
\n\nRefusing to participate, in this context, is actually a pretty self-destructive and counter-productive move. Assuming, of course, you actually have the skill to do well in this competition in the first place.
", "rawMarkdown": "That's a completely unrealistic stance to take. This isn't a case of discrimination, its a case of crappy, antiquated government budgeting rules. You aren't going to change those by taking a principled stand and boycotting this competition (which wouldn't work anyway because with this large of a cash prize there will be enough entrants that noone will notice anyway). You only show the stupidity of it by winning the competition as a non-U.S. citizen and then refusing to part with your code unless you are paid. \n\nIn all likelihood you'll be skipped over and not paid. But the point will have been made, as others have noted previously on this thread, that the best solution is not the one the government ended up with. And that will make legislators sit up and take notice in a way no half-hearted boycott ever could.\n\nRefusing to participate, in this context, is actually a pretty self-destructive and counter-productive move. Assuming, of course, you actually have the skill to do well in this competition in the first place." } ] }, { "id": 195526, "postDate": "2017-06-23T21:16:52.527Z", "content": "This is rather sad. The TSA has had a terrible reputation for precisely the problems mentioned in this competition overview's description. When I saw this competition I thought that it's really cool as it kind of gives us a sense that the TSA cares about the people on the wrong end of these problems, that they acknowledge them and are trying hard to improve. Unfortunately barring non-US citizens or permanent residents from winning the prize is a pretty terrible thing to do, mostly because much of the Kaggle community is indeed international, and it's this international community which made Kaggle as popular as its become through acts of inclusiveness by sharing skills and knowledge with the world. The hurdle of citizenship status and H1B visas is already one of the biggest reasons keeping a large portion of tech talent from working in the US, and now it has been brought onto Kaggle. I think such a non-inclusive competition should be set up as either a private competition, or something like one of those \"master-only\" ones. Having 5000+ teams competing is good for marketing, which is good for everybody, but exploiting the community to do so with such exclusionary prize eligibility is wrong.
\n\nIf America really wants to compete, then perhaps the $1.5 million would be better spent on renovating a run-down school in the inner cities.
", "rawMarkdown": "This is rather sad. The TSA has had a terrible reputation for precisely the problems mentioned in this competition overview's description. When I saw this competition I thought that it's really cool as it kind of gives us a sense that the TSA cares about the people on the wrong end of these problems, that they acknowledge them and are trying hard to improve. Unfortunately barring non-US citizens or permanent residents from winning the prize is a pretty terrible thing to do, mostly because much of the Kaggle community is indeed international, and it's this international community which made Kaggle as popular as its become through acts of inclusiveness by sharing skills and knowledge with the world. The hurdle of citizenship status and H1B visas is already one of the biggest reasons keeping a large portion of tech talent from working in the US, and now it has been brought onto Kaggle. I think such a non-inclusive competition should be set up as either a private competition, or something like one of those \"master-only\" ones. Having 5000+ teams competing is good for marketing, which is good for everybody, but exploiting the community to do so with such exclusionary prize eligibility is wrong. \n\nIf America really wants to compete, then perhaps the $1.5 million would be better spent on renovating a run-down school in the inner cities. ", "votes": 30, "replies": [ { "id": 195652, "postDate": "2017-06-24T11:19:31.113Z", "content": "No run down schools anywhere else amiright?!\nAlso- I think this is more Kaggle's fault than the government's, frankly. It's a well known, and if one pauses to consider the matter outside of this particular context, fairly reasonable matter of law that the federal government cannot use taxpayer funds to enrich a foreign national. Now obviously said legal concept is pretty irrelevant here, but it is nonetheless still the law. Kaggle should have foreseen this, and, with an eye towards the long term rather than short run profits from easy federal $, not pursued competitions from which non-American users were barred.
", "rawMarkdown": "No run down schools anywhere else amiright?!\nAlso- I think this is more Kaggle's fault than the government's, frankly. It's a well known, and if one pauses to consider the matter outside of this particular context, fairly reasonable matter of law that the federal government cannot use taxpayer funds to enrich a foreign national. Now obviously said legal concept is pretty irrelevant here, but it is nonetheless still the law. Kaggle should have foreseen this, and, with an eye towards the long term rather than short run profits from easy federal $, not pursued competitions from which non-American users were barred.\n", "votes": 9 } ] }, { "id": 195045, "postDate": "2017-06-22T17:12:40.343Z", "content": "I support this. Science shouldn't be limited by countries.
", "rawMarkdown": "I support this. Science shouldn't be limited by countries.", "votes": 27 }, { "id": 196866, "postDate": "2017-06-28T09:19:52.117Z", "content": "After seeing this, I wish there was a button to downvote competitions!!!
", "rawMarkdown": "After seeing this, I wish there was a button to downvote competitions!!!", "votes": 23 }, { "id": 195092, "postDate": "2017-06-22T18:11:31.767Z", "content": "I will not be surprised to see new competitions with limitations on ethnicity, gender, religion or sexuality. \nShame on you, Kaggle. This insincerity is totally insulting.
", "rawMarkdown": "I will not be surprised to see new competitions with limitations on ethnicity, gender, religion or sexuality. \nShame on you, Kaggle. This insincerity is totally insulting.", "votes": 40 }, { "id": 195729, "postDate": "2017-06-24T18:47:15.337Z", "content": "Can't believe a Kaggle competiton has such a restriction. How did Kaggle allowed to host such a competition?\nThis is despicable. Please change the rules or remove this competition from the web site.
", "rawMarkdown": "Can't believe a Kaggle competiton has such a restriction. How did Kaggle allowed to host such a competition?\nThis is despicable. Please change the rules or remove this competition from the web site. ", "votes": 19 }, { "id": 195070, "postDate": "2017-06-22T17:49:50.480Z", "content": "Welcome to the world of Kaggle Discrimination !
", "rawMarkdown": "Welcome to the world of Kaggle Discrimination !\n", "votes": 23, "replies": [ { "id": 195071, "postDate": "2017-06-22T17:50:41.573Z", "content": "Its very hard and disturbing to believe that this is really happening
", "rawMarkdown": "Its very hard and disturbing to believe that this is really happening", "votes": 9 } ] }, { "id": 195109, "postDate": "2017-06-22T19:17:50.183Z", "content": "I don't blame the DOH for having to put rules like this on its competition, but I do blame Kaggle for accepting to host it for them under these circumstances. Way to piss off a big part of your community.
", "rawMarkdown": "I don't blame the DOH for having to put rules like this on its competition, but I do blame Kaggle for accepting to host it for them under these circumstances. Way to piss off a big part of your community.", "votes": 20 }, { "id": 207928, "postDate": "2017-07-27T22:56:44.093Z", "content": "Full disclosure: I am a US citizen and I dont intend to boycott.
\n\nBut the restriction is ill advised. US data scientists just aren't guaranteed to dominate in these competitions - they are often won by citizens of other countries. So I recommend that everyone enter, even if you cant win a prize. But dont submit your code - you will still be seen on the leaderboard. When the organizers see the high ranks dominated by foreigners, they will have a quandary - there are better detection algorithms out there and we are not using them! And foreigners understand our data better than we do - cant they use that knowledge to foil the screening? I forsee impassioned speeches in the senate and an executive order to pay off the real winners.
", "rawMarkdown": "Full disclosure: I am a US citizen and I dont intend to boycott. \n\nBut the restriction is ill advised. US data scientists just aren't guaranteed to dominate in these competitions - they are often won by citizens of other countries. So I recommend that everyone enter, even if you cant win a prize. But dont submit your code - you will still be seen on the leaderboard. When the organizers see the high ranks dominated by foreigners, they will have a quandary - there are better detection algorithms out there and we are not using them! And foreigners understand our data better than we do - cant they use that knowledge to foil the screening? I forsee impassioned speeches in the senate and an executive order to pay off the real winners.\n\n", "votes": 15, "replies": [ { "id": 219289, "postDate": "2017-09-07T16:12:34.430Z", "content": "\n\n\nWhen the organizers see the high ranks dominated by foreigners, they will have a quandary - there are better detection algorithms out there and we are not using them!
\n
Wishful thinking, but they really don't care.
\n\nDo you honest believe the 'organizers' i.e. Kaggle / the US govt, think that american data scientists are inherently the smartest in the world? Just being born someone doesn't make them more or less intellectual than anyone else, and our organizers already know that. The issue here isn't about 'proving' to them that foreigners to the US are capable...
", "rawMarkdown": "> When the organizers see the high ranks dominated by foreigners, they will have a quandary - there are better detection algorithms out there and we are not using them!\n\nWishful thinking, but they really don't care.\n\nDo you honest believe the 'organizers' i.e. Kaggle / the US govt, think that american data scientists are inherently the smartest in the world? Just being born someone doesn't make them more or less intellectual than anyone else, and our organizers already know that. The issue here isn't about 'proving' to them that foreigners to the US are capable...", "votes": 1 } ] }, { "id": 195238, "postDate": "2017-06-23T02:33:14.433Z", "content": "This is really sad.
\nThis information should be in the first page, not hidden inside the hidden rules tab.
\nI vote for non-us citizens to not participate. Count on me.
I wonder what would happen if the rules also included something like \"Non-american software cannot be used\", hidden in as well.
\n\nAnd yes, this is very sad.
", "rawMarkdown": "I wonder what would happen if the rules also included something like \"Non-american software cannot be used\", hidden in as well.\n\nAnd yes, this is very sad." }, { "id": 195395, "postDate": "2017-06-23T13:53:44.150Z", "content": "IMO, they decided to host this competition in Kaggle because of its visibility.
\nKaggle is not only famous among American universities, but in the entire world.
\nCrowd competitions like this are successful when they get a large number of participants.
\nThey can get a huge improvement from small contributions of different peers.
\nThus I think if we really want to be heard and respected we should not participate.
I also believe it would be more appropriated for the Homeland department host this competition in their website like many other American competitions.
\nKaggle should not host competitions that discriminate competitors by they origin, religion, age, sex, disability...
\nIf you participate you not only agree with their terms but you also encourage Kaggle to host more discriminatory competitions.
\nYesterday I was asking myself where this would go if we all accept this behaviour.
The rule to make the whole team not eligible for the prize with one member outside US can cause even more segregation issues.
\n\nI can imagine top performing teams rejecting new member purely based on his/her citizenship to avoid losing prize eligibility, or member from US not willing to join non US team. Or non US member not willing to join US team to avoid punishing his/her US friends.
\n\nWe may end up not only with the first and second class kaggle community members but promote this separation even more with the first and second class teams and fear not to touch the second class ones otherwise you'd lose your 1st class privileges.
\n\nI'd be happy if I'm wrong here.
\n\nI found working together in a team to be one of the more rewarding kaggle experience, would be great not to sacrifice it.
", "rawMarkdown": "The rule to make the whole team not eligible for the prize with one member outside US can cause even more segregation issues.\n\nI can imagine top performing teams rejecting new member purely based on his/her citizenship to avoid losing prize eligibility, or member from US not willing to join non US team. Or non US member not willing to join US team to avoid punishing his/her US friends.\n\nWe may end up not only with the first and second class kaggle community members but promote this separation even more with the first and second class teams and fear not to touch the second class ones otherwise you'd lose your 1st class privileges.\n\nI'd be happy if I'm wrong here.\n\nI found working together in a team to be one of the more rewarding kaggle experience, would be great not to sacrifice it.", "votes": 14, "replies": [ { "id": 201197, "postDate": "2017-07-10T17:07:49.937Z", "content": "Perhaps we should consider that Kaggle might not be the altruistic platform which we thought DESERVES the participation of open-minded, forward-thinking, progressive-thinking world citizens?
\n\nIn other words, if you are hungry for Pizza, no quantity of rice noodles are going to satisfy you.
", "rawMarkdown": "Perhaps we should consider that Kaggle might not be the altruistic platform which we thought DESERVES the participation of open-minded, forward-thinking, progressive-thinking world citizens? \n\nIn other words, if you are hungry for Pizza, no quantity of rice noodles are going to satisfy you. " } ] }, { "id": 195124, "postDate": "2017-06-22T19:51:25.417Z", "content": "Could the members of the Kaggle community who are no US citizens donate their prize to a US non-profit organization instead? For instance Freedom to Travel USA seems be a good cause some non-US citizens might want to donate to, as they are fighting the warrantless electronic strip searches of travellers in the USA.
", "rawMarkdown": "Could the members of the Kaggle community who are no US citizens donate their prize to a US non-profit organization instead? For instance [*Freedom to Travel USA*][1] seems be a good cause some non-US citizens might want to donate to, as they are fighting the warrantless electronic strip searches of travellers in the USA.\n\n [1]: http://fttusa.org/", "votes": 16, "replies": [ { "id": 195131, "postDate": "2017-06-22T20:00:23.613Z", "content": "I would say the opposite. People who are from US, should donate the prize to make it fair for their European, Asian, African, Australian , South American fellows that are not able to be eligible for a prize .
\n\nThat way we are all doing it for a good cause :)
", "rawMarkdown": "I would say the opposite. People who are from US, should donate the prize to make it fair for their European, Asian, African, Australian , South American fellows that are not able to be eligible for a prize . \n\nThat way we are all doing it for a good cause :) ", "votes": 16 } ] }, { "id": 195184, "postDate": "2017-06-22T22:28:36.860Z", "rawMarkdown": " ", "votes": 19, "replies": [ { "id": 195196, "postDate": "2017-06-22T23:03:09.280Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": -1 }, { "id": 195364, "postDate": "2017-06-23T11:52:56.210Z", "content": "You and I both know Trump doesn't believe in science.
", "rawMarkdown": "You and I both know Trump doesn't believe in science." }, { "id": 195404, "postDate": "2017-06-23T14:11:35.150Z", "content": "This is not Trump, this is Bush: America Compete Act was created in 2007, and refreshed in 2010. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_COMPETES_Act
", "rawMarkdown": "This is not Trump, this is Bush: America Compete Act was created in 2007, and refreshed in 2010. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_COMPETES_Act", "votes": 12 }, { "id": 195587, "postDate": "2017-06-24T05:28:43.557Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": 1, "isDeleted": true }, { "id": 216685, "postDate": "2017-08-27T13:18:34.590Z", "rawMarkdown": "" }, { "id": 391308, "postDate": "2018-09-21T15:22:43.683Z", "content": "there, I saved you
", "rawMarkdown": "there, I saved you" } ] }, { "id": 195754, "postDate": "2017-06-24T22:00:23.530Z", "content": "The competition should be closed to non-US citizens/residents.
\n\nBy letting non-residents in this competition Kaggle drove to extreme its core principle of exploiting scientific community for nothing. Kaggle commissions is comparable if not larger than prize funds. Few winners, sometimes from the 2nd and 3rd world, create state of the art solution and get paid on the scale of an average US programmer - in the best case. There are hundreds and thousands of brilliant people who waste their time for illusive idea of knowledge and ranking points. Even outsiders indirectly participate top solutions via creating pressure on the winners. Kaggle and its sponsors are so cheap that they don't consider making formal compliments to competitors in form of souvenirs (t-shirts/cups/pens) as thankful sponsors used to do.
", "rawMarkdown": "The competition should be closed to non-US citizens/residents.\n\nBy letting non-residents in this competition Kaggle drove to extreme its core principle of exploiting scientific community for nothing. Kaggle commissions is comparable if not larger than prize funds. Few winners, sometimes from the 2nd and 3rd world, create state of the art solution and get paid on the scale of an average US programmer - in the best case. There are hundreds and thousands of brilliant people who waste their time for illusive idea of knowledge and ranking points. Even outsiders indirectly participate top solutions via creating pressure on the winners. Kaggle and its sponsors are so cheap that they don't consider making formal compliments to competitors in form of souvenirs (t-shirts/cups/pens) as thankful sponsors used to do.", "votes": 10 }, { "id": 195403, "postDate": "2017-06-23T14:06:19.197Z", "content": "Organizers and Kaggle have set this in a way that no one outside the US should participate. Saying that all members of a team must be eligible is a clear message to all of us out there.
\n\nYes, it means they won't get results as good as if the competition was open (judging on who won the last image processing competitions). But that's their choice.
\n\nI won't enter for sure as there is only downside to non US people (legal liabilities). Of course I do not see me as a potential prize winner here, but this is for the principle. And I hope all non eligible people will do the same. I was only half kidding when I said this was the way to make sure US people can win a competition. That's precisely why this restriction is there.
", "rawMarkdown": "Organizers and Kaggle have set this in a way that no one outside the US should participate. Saying that all members of a team must be eligible is a clear message to all of us out there. \n\nYes, it means they won't get results as good as if the competition was open (judging on who won the last image processing competitions). But that's their choice.\n\nI won't enter for sure as there is only downside to non US people (legal liabilities). Of course I do not see me as a potential prize winner here, but this is for the principle. And I hope all non eligible people will do the same. I was only half kidding when I said this was the way to make sure US people can win a competition. That's precisely why this restriction is there.", "votes": 10 }, { "id": 195108, "postDate": "2017-06-22T19:16:02.903Z", "content": "Someone is fed up to see European teams trust all #1 spots recently ;)
", "rawMarkdown": "Someone is fed up to see European teams trust all #1 spots recently ;)", "votes": 10, "replies": [ { "id": 195224, "postDate": "2017-06-23T01:18:22.330Z", "content": "LOL
", "rawMarkdown": "LOL", "votes": 2 } ] }, { "id": 744881, "postDate": "2020-02-13T08:41:51.267Z", "content": "Hundreds of comments repeating \"Well said\" and \"Thanks for sharing\" on a 3 year old post, even though AFAIK the condition of the post doesn't apply anymore!
", "rawMarkdown": "Hundreds of comments repeating \"Well said\" and \"Thanks for sharing\" on a 3 year old post, even though AFAIK the condition of the post doesn't apply anymore!" }, { "id": 195160, "postDate": "2017-06-22T21:32:34.123Z", "content": "Kaggle's decision to accept such discriminatory rules for a competition is extremely disappointing!
\n\nThis is an insult to all of us, the community behind Kaggle and the most valuable asset.
\n\nKaggle: -1
", "rawMarkdown": "Kaggle's decision to accept such discriminatory rules for a competition is extremely disappointing!\n\nThis is an insult to all of us, the community behind Kaggle and the most valuable asset.\n\nKaggle: -1", "votes": 11 }, { "id": 195039, "postDate": "2017-06-22T17:01:17.850Z", "content": "It is a pity, I hope they reconsider.
", "rawMarkdown": "It is a pity, I hope they reconsider.", "votes": 8 }, { "id": 195677, "postDate": "2017-06-24T13:50:12.217Z", "content": "There are already many opinions like \"Kaggle is for learning and it is a great achievement just having such dataset in the first place\". How about making the data truly open as a gift for excluded community? Licence dataset for any use for everyone and maybe it will be fine compromise.
", "rawMarkdown": "There are already many opinions like \"Kaggle is for learning and it is a great achievement just having such dataset in the first place\". How about making the data truly open as a gift for excluded community? Licence dataset for any use for everyone and maybe it will be fine compromise. ", "votes": 7 }, { "id": 195050, "postDate": "2017-06-22T17:18:48.413Z", "content": "I suggest to upvote this post and to downvote the welcome post as a sign of protest. If all non-american kagglers will do this it could be epic XD
", "rawMarkdown": "I suggest to upvote this post and to downvote the welcome post as a sign of protest. If all non-american kagglers will do this it could be epic XD", "votes": 9 }, { "id": 227802, "postDate": "2017-10-05T07:07:58.380Z", "content": "I agree, this competition is complete BS!
", "rawMarkdown": "I agree, this competition is complete BS!", "votes": 5 }, { "id": 195101, "postDate": "2017-06-22T18:38:36.647Z", "content": "This is a bit of a surprising move, and I'm a bit disheartened that such rules should exist, especially on a platform like Kaggle, where the world's best data scientists gather up to compete and share their knowledge. This is no different for me than racial, gender, or any other discrimination. What's more puzzling is that the dataset is actually open for anyone, so I definitely see no reason for national limitation whatsoever.
", "rawMarkdown": "This is a bit of a surprising move, and I'm a bit disheartened that such rules should exist, especially on a platform like Kaggle, where the world's best data scientists gather up to compete and share their knowledge. This is no different for me than racial, gender, or any other discrimination. What's more puzzling is that the dataset is actually open for anyone, so I definitely see no reason for national limitation whatsoever.", "votes": 5 }, { "id": 195068, "postDate": "2017-06-22T17:44:35.633Z", "content": "Totally agree with frustrations expressed here. Neither Kaggle, DHS nor the community wants geo restrictions.
\n\nIn this case it's a legal restriction. DHS worked hard to allow any international participation (albeit without prize money).
\n\nFrom Kaggle's perspective, we prefer to host a competition with a geo restriction and make the opportunity available to the community than not host. We think this is a better (albeit imperfect) outcome.
", "rawMarkdown": "Totally agree with frustrations expressed here. Neither Kaggle, DHS nor the community wants geo restrictions.\n\nIn this case it's a legal restriction. DHS worked hard to allow any international participation (albeit without prize money).\n\nFrom Kaggle's perspective, we prefer to host a competition with a geo restriction and make the opportunity available to the community than not host. We think this is a better (albeit imperfect) outcome.", "votes": -2, "replies": [ { "id": 195076, "postDate": "2017-06-22T17:59:00.413Z", "content": "Out of curiosity, would you host \"competition with a geo restriction and make the opportunity available to the community\" if prize money was $15,000 and not $1,500,000
\n\nYes or no?
", "rawMarkdown": "Out of curiosity, would you host \"competition with a geo restriction and make the opportunity available to the community\" if prize money was $15,000 and not $1,500,000\n\nYes or no?", "votes": 45 }, { "id": 195087, "postDate": "2017-06-22T18:07:04.183Z", "content": "\n\n\nDHS worked hard to allow any international participation (albeit\n without prize money).
\n
Sounds like a bad joke. \"We are allowing you to make us the best solution possible. And what's more -- you will not be jailed, ha-ha\".
\n\nHope, I still could onetime visit US after making all this bitter comments.
", "rawMarkdown": "> DHS worked hard to allow any international participation (albeit\n> without prize money).\n\nSounds like a bad joke. \"We are allowing you to make us the best solution possible. And what's more -- you will not be jailed, ha-ha\".\n\nHope, I still could onetime visit US after making all this bitter comments. ", "votes": 26 }, { "id": 195102, "postDate": "2017-06-22T18:38:44.483Z", "content": "If the platform is international, then in a competition with such restrictions, you can, for example, try to attract sponsors to pay prize money to participants falling under restrictions.
", "rawMarkdown": "If the platform is international, then in a competition with such restrictions, you can, for example, try to attract sponsors to pay prize money to participants falling under restrictions.", "votes": 7 }, { "id": 195222, "postDate": "2017-06-23T01:14:03.163Z", "content": "Do we have to have permanent American residency the moment we agree to the rules, or are we allowed to obtain one later on?
\n\nWinning this competition will show you are a person of extraordinary ability / outstanding researcher, which qualifies you for a fast-track. Or you can use part of your winnings (250.000$) to apply for an investor VISA.
\n\nAnother hack: Are Americans allowed to use non-American software? If not, that's fair. If they do, we could circumvent the:
\n\n\n\n\nIf a team has one or more members who are not prize eligible, then the entire team is not prize eligible.
\n
By releasing undocumented software on a new Github account and only sharing the link with your American \"team\" mates. This special software would only work for this competition. After you help your all-American \"team\" win some money, they would of course make a generous donation to support further development of your software.
", "rawMarkdown": "Do we have to have permanent American residency the moment we agree to the rules, or are we allowed to obtain one later on?\n\nWinning this competition will show you are a person of extraordinary ability / outstanding researcher, which qualifies you for a fast-track. Or you can use part of your winnings (250.000$) to apply for an investor VISA.\n\nAnother hack: Are Americans allowed to use non-American software? If not, that's fair. If they do, we could circumvent the:\n\n> If a team has one or more members who are not prize eligible, then the entire team is not prize eligible.\n\nBy releasing undocumented software on a new Github account and only sharing the link with your American \"team\" mates. This special software would only work for this competition. After you help your all-American \"team\" win some money, they would of course make a generous donation to support further development of your software.", "votes": 2 }, { "id": 195252, "postDate": "2017-06-23T03:23:09.020Z", "content": "It sounds like a very nice trick. Is it skill to find leaks on Kaggle applied to legal world? :)
", "rawMarkdown": "It sounds like a very nice trick. Is it skill to find leaks on Kaggle applied to legal world? :)" } ] }, { "id": 195051, "postDate": "2017-06-22T17:19:04.410Z", "content": "I'm relatively new to the Kaggle community and I'm not sure I understand this complaint entirely.
\n\nIt is immediately evident why it would be disappointing to be excluded from the available prizes, but I fail to see the alternative or the solution here. DHS has undertaken the effort to design a competition, but cannot (by law or policy) reward some portion (plurality, majority, or otherwise) of the Kaggle community.
\n\nWould you rather Kaggle reject the competition and therein \"punish\" its American users? I find it frustrating to read posts complaining but not offering a solution, but perhaps I am missing the point here. I suppose my question, once more, is: what would you have Kaggle do?
", "rawMarkdown": "I'm relatively new to the Kaggle community and I'm not sure I understand this complaint entirely. \n\nIt is immediately evident why it would be disappointing to be excluded from the available prizes, but I fail to see the alternative or the solution here. DHS has undertaken the effort to design a competition, but cannot (by law or policy) reward some portion (plurality, majority, or otherwise) of the Kaggle community.\n\nWould you rather Kaggle reject the competition and therein \"punish\" its American users? I find it frustrating to read posts complaining but not offering a solution, but perhaps I am missing the point here. I suppose my question, once more, is: **what would you have Kaggle do?**", "votes": -2, "replies": [ { "id": 195057, "postDate": "2017-06-22T17:28:29Z", "content": "DHS has constraints. This is fine and this is expected. They may host closed competition for Data Scientists that work at DHS.
\n\nOpen competition with such rules is not ok.
\n\nWhat would you have Kaggle do? => do not agree to host the competition with this set of rules. They will loose money => such is life. I am expecting that there are plenty of other opportunities. Sure, money that they may bring to Kaggle as a company is smaller, but still. It is not a life changing deal.
To have a couple of balls? What have done Kaggle the biggest competition platform? Users, the largest number of users. And mostly they are not from the USA. Therefore, It will be honest not only make money but take care of community too.
\n\nOk, with respect to your text-bolding skills, there are several solutions:
\n\nNow it looks like Kaggle doesn't care about what it is -- the community. Or maybe, it's the platform with great design and UI?
", "rawMarkdown": "To have a couple of balls? What have done Kaggle the biggest competition platform? Users, the largest number of users. And mostly they are not from the USA. Therefore, It will be honest not only make money but take care of community too. \n\nOk, with respect to your text-bolding skills, there are several solutions: \n \n 1. Make the competition \"knowledge\"-type for all\n 2. Find additional sponsors for the competition \n \nNow it looks like Kaggle doesn't care about what it is -- the community. Or maybe, it's the platform with great design and UI?", "votes": 33 }, { "id": 195060, "postDate": "2017-06-22T17:34:05.673Z", "content": "How do you think, will there be any competitions at all if most of us (non-US citizens) just close this tab and will forget about Kaggle forever?
\n\nLet's make analogy. There is American Football and there is Olympics. Kaggle was like Olympics and it become huge success because of this. Now, suddenly it becomes American Football and bans all international athletes. How would you think people will react? How will audience react? How will future sponsors react?
", "rawMarkdown": "How do you think, will there be any competitions at all if most of us (non-US citizens) just close this tab and will forget about Kaggle forever? \n\nLet's make analogy. There is American Football and there is Olympics. Kaggle was like Olympics and it become huge success because of this. Now, suddenly it becomes American Football and bans all international athletes. How would you think people will react? How will audience react? How will future sponsors react? ", "votes": 22 }, { "id": 195061, "postDate": "2017-06-22T17:36:20.143Z", "content": "And, btw, the only Football -- that from England. US version is just rugby
", "rawMarkdown": "And, btw, the only Football -- that from England. US version is just rugby", "votes": 8 }, { "id": 195123, "postDate": "2017-06-22T19:50:07.687Z", "content": "I think we differ on the evaluation of Kaggle's choice; I don't see it as a \"ban.\" While other recent competitions also have geographic restrictions on rewards, I'm mystified by the backlash to this particular, single competition. \"Forgetting about Kaggle forever\" because of a single competition's unfortunate restrictions seems like an extreme reaction to me.
\n\nRather than causing an exodus from Kaggle, I would expect that such a well-known sponsor and a nice chunk of change to boot would draw a new audience to Kaggle! Whether that will prove to be true remains to be seen, of course.
", "rawMarkdown": "I think we differ on the evaluation of Kaggle's choice; I don't see it as a \"ban.\" While other recent competitions also have geographic restrictions on rewards, I'm mystified by the backlash to this particular, single competition. \"Forgetting about Kaggle forever\" because of a single competition's unfortunate restrictions seems like an extreme reaction to me.\n\nRather than causing an exodus from Kaggle, I would expect that such a well-known sponsor and a nice chunk of change to boot would draw a new audience to Kaggle! Whether that will prove to be true remains to be seen, of course.", "votes": 14 }, { "id": 195130, "postDate": "2017-06-22T20:00:08.617Z", "content": "Though my perspective is skewed as I am eligible for the prize, I find it petulant to ask that the prize not be given to anyone on the sole basis that not everyone is eligible. The DHS is willing to pay -- why shut the door on those who could earn the reward? If Kaggle constructed the competition as no-material-reward, there would only be less gross reward to go around. That is, if you aren't eligible for the prize now, you have the same incentives to participate in a knowledge-only version whereas those who are eligible now have additional reason to contribute!
\n\nAdditional sponsors certainly sound good, but I suspect the idea is also rather impractical. Which organizations would be willing to pay for the DHS to receive better results? Perhaps the backscatter manufacturers would be willing to sponsor in exchange for access to the winning entries. Failing that... it seems like a stretch.
", "rawMarkdown": "Though my perspective is skewed as I am eligible for the prize, I find it petulant to ask that the prize not be given to anyone on the sole basis that not everyone is eligible. The DHS is willing to pay -- why shut the door on those who could earn the reward? If Kaggle constructed the competition as no-material-reward, there would only be less gross reward to go around. That is, if you aren't eligible for the prize now, you have the same incentives to participate in a knowledge-only version whereas those who are eligible now have additional reason to contribute!\n\nAdditional sponsors certainly sound good, but I suspect the idea is also rather impractical. Which organizations would be willing to pay for the DHS to receive better results? Perhaps the backscatter manufacturers would be willing to sponsor in exchange for access to the winning entries. Failing that... it seems like a stretch.", "votes": 9 }, { "id": 195459, "postDate": "2017-06-23T16:42:40.267Z", "content": "A very wise comment Egorov.
", "rawMarkdown": "A very wise comment Egorov. " }, { "id": 195582, "postDate": "2017-06-24T04:33:54.983Z", "content": "How would you react at restrictions based on race or gender for example?
\n\nWould you consider not accepting a person to the team purely based on his/her citizenship?
", "rawMarkdown": "How would you react at restrictions based on race or gender for example?\n\nWould you consider not accepting a person to the team purely based on his/her citizenship?\n" } ] }, { "id": 196730, "postDate": "2017-06-28T01:58:07.847Z", "content": "It is nonsense. But the best way to stick it to them is to send me your best models and I will spend the prize money on international vacationing or buying an exotic foreign car to pollute their atmosphere and prevent money from going to the air travel system or domestic economy. ;)
", "rawMarkdown": "It is nonsense. But the best way to stick it to them is to send me your best models and I will spend the prize money on international vacationing or buying an exotic foreign car to pollute their atmosphere and prevent money from going to the air travel system or domestic economy. ;)", "votes": 3 }, { "id": 197046, "postDate": "2017-06-28T17:17:36.603Z", "content": "I do think Kaggle should make a stand against such discrimination. United States corporations are globalists but the govt has their heads buried in the ground. This is the same agency that rejected the creator of curl from onboarding the flight. If Kaggle has any balls it should just say no to just discrimination.
\n\nWhat next, \"let's make a terrorist detection competition where muslims are not allowed to participate\". \"A crime classifier where black people are not allowed to participate\". Where does the bar stop?
\n\nKaggle, you need to make stand for what you believe in. It's moments like this where you lead by action.
", "rawMarkdown": "I do think Kaggle should make a stand against such discrimination. United States corporations are globalists but the govt has their heads buried in the ground. This is the same agency that rejected the creator of curl from onboarding the flight. If Kaggle has any balls it should just say no to just discrimination.\n\nWhat next, \"let's make a terrorist detection competition where muslims are not allowed to participate\". \"A crime classifier where black people are not allowed to participate\". Where does the bar stop?\n\nKaggle, you need to make stand for what you believe in. It's moments like this where you lead by action. ", "votes": 3, "replies": [ { "id": 197159, "postDate": "2017-06-28T22:50:36.123Z", "content": "You are standing against discrimination and using such a discriminative phrase as \"has any balls\" in the same message.
", "rawMarkdown": "You are standing against discrimination and using such a discriminative phrase as \"has any balls\" in the same message.", "votes": 7 }, { "id": 212867, "postDate": "2017-08-12T23:24:05.600Z", "content": "You're wrong, pal. This isn't discrimination, it's just the vagaries of government funding. Kaggle is doing the only responsible thing by accepting this competition. The data science community needs this sort of thing to keep expanding its horizons and, more importantly, to demonstrate to the government that these competitions have value.
\n\nThe non-U.S. citizen rule is unfair, yes. But it was probably unavoidable. And it is certainly not equivalent to blatant discrimination by race, religion, or ethnicity.
", "rawMarkdown": "You're wrong, pal. This isn't discrimination, it's just the vagaries of government funding. Kaggle is doing the only responsible thing by accepting this competition. The data science community needs this sort of thing to keep expanding its horizons and, more importantly, to demonstrate to the government that these competitions have value.\n\nThe non-U.S. citizen rule is unfair, yes. But it was probably unavoidable. And it is certainly not equivalent to blatant discrimination by race, religion, or ethnicity." } ] }, { "id": 196289, "postDate": "2017-06-27T00:43:37.183Z", "content": "This competition is sponsored by the US department of homeland security. I'm not 100% sure but I think they are required by law to only provide money to US citizens, permanent residents, and US companies.
", "rawMarkdown": "This competition is sponsored by the US department of homeland security. I'm not 100% sure but I think they are required by law to only provide money to US citizens, permanent residents, and US companies.", "votes": 4, "replies": [ { "id": 212868, "postDate": "2017-08-12T23:24:45.257Z", "content": "That's a good bet.
", "rawMarkdown": "That's a good bet." } ] }, { "id": 195144, "postDate": "2017-06-22T20:37:51.167Z", "content": "If the rules won't be changed, I hope this competition will be the most ignored by Kaggle community competition ever.
", "rawMarkdown": "If the rules won't be changed, I hope this competition will be the most ignored by Kaggle community competition ever. ", "votes": 3 }, { "id": 195653, "postDate": "2017-06-24T11:24:19.337Z", "content": "Actual discrimination: Philando Castille's murder\nNot actual discrimination: Kaggle following federal law
\n\nActual discrimination: Muslim ban\nNot actual discrimination: Kaggle following federal law
", "rawMarkdown": "Actual discrimination: Philando Castille's murder\nNot actual discrimination: Kaggle following federal law\n\nActual discrimination: Muslim ban\nNot actual discrimination: Kaggle following federal law", "votes": 2, "replies": [ { "id": 195659, "postDate": "2017-06-24T11:36:17.987Z", "content": "Be happy about the discrimination or federal law.
", "rawMarkdown": "Be happy about the discrimination or federal law.", "votes": -1 }, { "id": 195670, "postDate": "2017-06-24T13:07:08.757Z", "content": "Following the federal law does not automatically mean it's not an actual discrimination
", "rawMarkdown": "Following the federal law does not automatically mean it's not an actual discrimination", "votes": 6 } ] }, { "id": 228174, "postDate": "2017-10-06T03:11:41.210Z", "content": "\"The Competition is open to ... validly formed legal U.S. entities whose primary place of business is in the U.S. that have not declared or been declared in bankruptcy.\" seems to imply that: Persons intending to win, but not eligible to win individually, may work on this competition through an institution/employer that is eligible to win.
\nEven though I am eligible to win, I opine that DHS should have made this competition winnable by non-USA citizens or hosted this competition through their own website.
", "rawMarkdown": "*\"The Competition is open to ... validly formed legal U.S. entities whose primary place of business is in the U.S. that have not declared or been declared in bankruptcy.\"* seems to imply that: Persons intending to win, but not eligible to win individually, may work on this competition through an institution/employer that is eligible to win.\n*Even though I am eligible to win,* I opine that DHS should have made this competition winnable by non-USA citizens or hosted this competition through their own website.
", "votes": 3 }, { "id": 195112, "postDate": "2017-06-22T19:23:41.473Z", "content": "Do Ranking points count though for non US? Maybe if you give double ranking points for people not able to claim the prize?
", "rawMarkdown": "Do Ranking points count though for non US? Maybe if you give double ranking points for people not able to claim the prize?", "votes": 2, "replies": [ { "id": 195128, "postDate": "2017-06-22T19:56:05.727Z", "content": "Wouldn't this defeat the purpose of the ranking system? Since you wouldn't have to show good results overall anymore, but only in the competition (hopefully not plural soon) that would have to implement this?
", "rawMarkdown": "Wouldn't this defeat the purpose of the ranking system? Since you wouldn't have to show good results overall anymore, but only in the competition (hopefully not plural soon) that would have to implement this?", "votes": 4 }, { "id": 195129, "postDate": "2017-06-22T19:58:05.653Z", "content": "I agree, but at least it somehow accounts for the unfairness of the prize distribution. It is...something .
", "rawMarkdown": "I agree, but at least it somehow accounts for the unfairness of the prize distribution. It is...something . " }, { "id": 195231, "postDate": "2017-06-23T01:46:51.443Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": 2, "isDeleted": true }, { "id": 195301, "postDate": "2017-06-23T07:45:02.003Z", "content": "But Why. I am just trying to find alternatives so that the non-us community does not feel left out.
", "rawMarkdown": "But Why. I am just trying to find alternatives so that the non-us community does not feel left out. ", "votes": 2 }, { "id": 195528, "postDate": "2017-06-23T21:29:26.610Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "isDeleted": true } ] }, { "id": 195105, "postDate": "2017-06-22T19:03:20.327Z", "content": "I guess Kaggle need to recruit new strategic decision makers.
", "rawMarkdown": "I guess Kaggle need to recruit new strategic decision makers.", "votes": 3 }, { "id": 195914, "postDate": "2017-06-25T17:51:04.923Z", "content": "Organizers cannot pay to non-US winners due to US -law restrictions, I understand this. But organizers took another important right - possibility to choose how to spend the prize. if non-US got the prize, he should be able to say: \"OK, I cannot receive the money, but could you please transfer to the charity fund or to the winner or to the 4th place or ...
", "rawMarkdown": "Organizers cannot pay to non-US winners due to US -law restrictions, I understand this. But organizers took another important right - possibility to choose how to spend the prize. if non-US got the prize, he should be able to say: \"OK, I cannot receive the money, but could you please transfer to the charity fund or to the winner or to the 4th place or ...", "votes": 2, "replies": [ { "id": 212871, "postDate": "2017-08-12T23:29:42.947Z", "content": "That's an excellent point.
", "rawMarkdown": "That's an excellent point.", "votes": -1 } ] }, { "id": 195541, "postDate": "2017-06-23T23:35:45.590Z", "content": "I might be wrong, but the winning model and algorithm is a reward in itself if you are into airport security that is. Your next step would be setting up a company if you do not already and peddling the software to the interested buyers. I have a nagging suspicion that TSA would have to pay much more than 1 million for the delivery.
", "rawMarkdown": "I might be wrong, but the winning model and algorithm is a reward in itself if you are into airport security that is. Your next step would be setting up a company if you do not already and peddling the software to the interested buyers. I have a nagging suspicion that TSA would have to pay much more than 1 million for the delivery. \n", "votes": 2 }, { "id": 195414, "postDate": "2017-06-23T14:32:45.967Z", "content": "Boycott, that's all.
", "rawMarkdown": "Boycott, that's all. ", "votes": 3 }, { "id": 249200, "postDate": "2017-11-27T23:28:28.710Z", "content": "If the prize wasn't that huge, or if there was no prize at all, this discussion wouldn't have happened at all. Moaning and money always go hand in hand, yet aren't data scientists the most wanted and most paid professionals? There's so much opportunities out there, go catch them and try to make the world a better place with the skills you own. Don't know where to start? https://www.drivendata.org/ just an example, tho most of you will already know about that
", "rawMarkdown": "If the prize wasn't that huge, or if there was no prize at all, this discussion wouldn't have happened at all. Moaning and money always go hand in hand, yet aren't data scientists the most wanted and most paid professionals? There's so much opportunities out there, go catch them and try to make the world a better place with the skills you own. Don't know where to start? https://www.drivendata.org/ just an example, tho most of you will already know about that", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 227788, "postDate": "2017-10-05T06:13:41.700Z", "content": "Bro, this guys just reduce the quality of the future solution. Their problem. :)). Take it like that. As for money? Well, there's bunch other competitions.
", "rawMarkdown": "Bro, this guys just reduce the quality of the future solution. Their problem. :)). Take it like that. As for money? Well, there's bunch other competitions. ", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 195730, "postDate": "2017-06-24T18:53:05.100Z", "content": "There is so much wrong with this competition, even without this discrimination thing.
\n\n\"Please help us make better ways to build our surveillance state\".
\n\n... no thanks
", "rawMarkdown": "There is so much wrong with this competition, even without this discrimination thing.\n\n\"Please help us make better ways to build our surveillance state\".\n\n... no thanks", "votes": 2 }, { "id": 218399, "postDate": "2017-09-04T05:28:05.047Z", "content": "Shame this still got no clarification from host, at all.
", "rawMarkdown": "Shame this still got no clarification from host, at all.", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 212866, "postDate": "2017-08-12T23:18:50.533Z", "content": "It's highly likely that the particular funding TSA had available to it to pay the winners of this competition can't be paid to non-citizens for legal reasons. Government budgeting is not about results, efficiency, or return on investment. It is an exercise in control. This isn't just my opinion, it's an established fact that is actually taught as such in government budget courses. I doubt TSA can give this money to non-citizens. It's probably prohibited in the relevant budget guidance to that agency.
\n\nThere is no question that it is unfair in a general sense to deprive non-U.S. citizens of the fruits of their labors if they write the winning solution to this competition. But it is also wholly irrelevant if the competition sponsor has no control over the process.
\n\nAs someone mentioned further down this thread, a solution might be to team up with a U.S. citizen who was willing to honorably split the money post-victory. This requires a certain level of trust, probably in someone you've never met before, but it is a workable solution.
\n\nMore importantly, @pete is right to point out that showing the value of this sort of competition might pry more liberal funding from the Federal government in the future for this sort of thing. And that would be a win for the entire data science, and even the entire scientific, community writ large. Government is hardly a progressive institution and I'm sure there is a high level career civil servant somewhere in TSA who has put his neck on the line to show that data science competitions deserve seven figure expenditures because they can make meaningful contributions to national security and the well-being of all Americans. That was an act of courage, whether it is immediately obvious or not, and we should applaud it.
\n\nI say all of this as a newcomer to data science who does not yet possess the skills to even attempt competing in this particular competition. I still have a lot to learn about this field. But I am also a career Soldier and civil servant and I can tell you unreservedly from that perspective that this criticism, though true, should deter noone from competing. If anything, those with the skills to do so must compete to pry loose the Federal funding in the future that makes such mammoth cash prizes and datasets possible. After all, who collects more comprehensive data than the Federal government? Noone. Even the Googles and Amazons of the world only peer into the lives of those who use the Internet. The government pries much deeper than that. This competition is proof of that in its own right. In the interests of the data science field itself, then, it is incumbent upon everyone with the requisite ability to show what can be done in this competition.
\n\nJust my two cents.
", "rawMarkdown": "It's highly likely that the particular funding TSA had available to it to pay the winners of this competition *can't* be paid to non-citizens for legal reasons. Government budgeting is not about results, efficiency, or return on investment. It is an exercise in control. This isn't just my opinion, it's an established fact that is actually taught as such in government budget courses. I doubt TSA *can* give this money to non-citizens. It's probably prohibited in the relevant budget guidance to that agency.\n\nThere is no question that it is unfair in a general sense to deprive non-U.S. citizens of the fruits of their labors if they write the winning solution to this competition. But it is also wholly irrelevant if the competition sponsor has no control over the process. \n\nAs someone mentioned further down this thread, a solution might be to team up with a U.S. citizen who was willing to honorably split the money post-victory. This requires a certain level of trust, probably in someone you've never met before, but it is a workable solution. \n\nMore importantly, @pete is right to point out that showing the value of this sort of competition might pry more liberal funding from the Federal government in the future for this sort of thing. And that would be a win for the entire data science, and even the entire scientific, community writ large. Government is hardly a progressive institution and I'm sure there is a high level career civil servant somewhere in TSA who has put his neck on the line to show that data science competitions deserve seven figure expenditures because they can make meaningful contributions to national security and the well-being of all Americans. That was an act of courage, whether it is immediately obvious or not, and we should applaud it. \n\nI say all of this as a newcomer to data science who does not yet possess the skills to even attempt competing in this particular competition. I still have a lot to learn about this field. But I am also a career Soldier and civil servant and I can tell you unreservedly from that perspective that this criticism, though true, should deter noone from competing. If anything, those with the skills to do so *must* compete to pry loose the Federal funding in the future that makes such mammoth cash prizes and datasets possible. After all, who collects more comprehensive data than the Federal government? Noone. Even the Googles and Amazons of the world only peer into the lives of those who use the Internet. The government pries much deeper than that. This competition is proof of that in its own right. In the interests of the data science field itself, then, it is incumbent upon everyone with the requisite ability to show what can be done in this competition. \n\nJust my two cents. ", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 198665, "postDate": "2017-07-03T10:02:44.173Z", "content": "Most people on this website accept to give their time to solve difficult problems because they value the feedback of the community, money is certainly not their main concern. So if you divide the community, you hurt the very reason people enjoy working with Kaggle. Because we are scientists doesn't mean we don't have ethics, it is quite the opposite actually.
", "rawMarkdown": "Most people on this website accept to give their time to solve difficult problems because they value the feedback of the community, money is certainly not their main concern. So if you divide the community, you hurt the very reason people enjoy working with Kaggle. Because we are scientists doesn't mean we don't have ethics, it is quite the opposite actually. ", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 198662, "postDate": "2017-07-03T09:40:07.207Z", "content": "I think we are here because kaggle is a free commuity with teconology and discussion, we all grow up with it. If oneday, some rude rules such as this one make this commuity hurt by political shit, it is our loss.
", "rawMarkdown": "I think we are here because kaggle is a free commuity with teconology and discussion, we all grow up with it. If oneday, some rude rules such as this one make this commuity hurt by political shit, it is our loss.", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 195126, "postDate": "2017-06-22T19:52:51.857Z", "content": "I think for those who can win the prize, rank points <<<<<<< prize. Too sad ;(
", "rawMarkdown": "I think for those who can win the prize, rank points <<<<<<< prize. Too sad ;(\n", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 195089, "postDate": "2017-06-22T18:07:47.400Z", "content": "nothing new, just typical american racism... Trump's people
", "rawMarkdown": "nothing new, just typical american racism... Trump's people", "votes": -3 }, { "id": 195835, "postDate": "2017-06-25T08:04:09.173Z", "content": "A disgrace to the scientific community. This is the reason why Geoff Hinton left US.
", "rawMarkdown": "A disgrace to the scientific community. This is the reason why Geoff Hinton left US. " }, { "id": 782543, "postDate": "2020-03-22T12:09:08.093Z", "content": "Great work!
", "rawMarkdown": "Great work!", "votes": -2 }, { "id": 195543, "postDate": "2017-06-23T23:50:56.523Z", "content": "I guess most of top 100 users are excluded....\nDHS's loss, waste of tax payers' money again.
", "rawMarkdown": "I guess most of top 100 users are excluded....\nDHS's loss, waste of tax payers' money again.", "votes": 2 }, { "id": 195779, "postDate": "2017-06-25T01:41:10.827Z", "content": "where are going with discrimination rules like this? I can't believe this is happening in a scientific community
", "rawMarkdown": "where are going with discrimination rules like this? I can't believe this is happening in a scientific community" }, { "id": 747436, "postDate": "2020-02-16T12:43:11.060Z", "content": "Great analysis!
", "rawMarkdown": "Great analysis!", "votes": -1 }, { "id": 195640, "postDate": "2017-06-24T09:42:47.167Z", "content": "\"Never do anything against conscience even if the state demands it.\" --Einstein
", "rawMarkdown": "\"Never do anything against conscience even if the state demands it.\" --Einstein", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 195597, "postDate": "2017-06-24T06:47:12.403Z", "content": "The flip side of this coin is: because of the smaller participation, it's easier to win ranking points if you don't really care about the prize money.
", "rawMarkdown": "The flip side of this coin is: because of the smaller participation, it's easier to win ranking points if you don't really care about the prize money.", "votes": -4, "replies": [ { "id": 195628, "postDate": "2017-06-24T09:05:49.593Z", "content": "I disagree, we all should stand defiant, It's disgraceful that Kaggle agreed to host this competition.
", "rawMarkdown": "I disagree, we all should stand defiant, It's disgraceful that Kaggle agreed to host this competition.", "votes": -1 }, { "id": 195654, "postDate": "2017-06-24T11:25:31.423Z", "content": "How dare you consider self interest when there's vague cause for outrage! Thoughtcrime
", "rawMarkdown": "How dare you consider self interest when there's vague cause for outrage! Thoughtcrime", "votes": 1 } ] }, { "id": 195902, "postDate": "2017-06-25T16:39:24.193Z", "content": "I think this is one of the Trump (side) effect !
", "rawMarkdown": "I think this is one of the Trump (side) effect !\n", "votes": -3, "replies": [ { "id": 195997, "postDate": "2017-06-26T01:49:34.250Z", "content": "The America Competes Act was reauthorized by President Obama in 2010.
", "rawMarkdown": "The America Competes Act was reauthorized by President Obama in 2010.", "votes": 6 } ] }, { "id": 200086, "postDate": "2017-07-07T04:14:14.537Z", "content": "If you have ever done business with the USA government as a non-us entity than you would know that the restrictions from a legal view point are longer printed pages than the images in the 3+TB data set. Ok so, I am stretching it a little, but not that much. So the prize restriction makes perfect sense to me.
\n\nThe legal issues involved with just the device itself has/will keep many lawyers buying new cars as a result of 4th amendment.
\n\nAdditionally, from my view, my taxes paying for this - I don't want to share :)
", "rawMarkdown": "If you have ever done business with the USA government as a non-us entity than you would know that the restrictions from a legal view point are longer printed pages than the images in the 3+TB data set. Ok so, I am stretching it a little, but not that much. So the prize restriction makes perfect sense to me. \n\nThe legal issues involved with just the device itself has/will keep many lawyers buying new cars as a result of 4th amendment.\n\nAdditionally, from my view, my taxes paying for this - I don't want to share :)", "votes": -7, "replies": [ { "id": 200242, "postDate": "2017-07-07T09:11:46.363Z", "content": "\n\n\nPC Jimmmy wrote\n Additionally, from my view, my taxes paying for this - I don't want to share :)
\n
And that's perfectly okay. Just research, experiment and create it on yourown and do not annoy international community.
", "rawMarkdown": "\n> **PC Jimmmy wrote**\n> Additionally, from my view, my taxes paying for this - I don't want to share :)\n\nAnd that's perfectly okay. Just research, experiment and create it on yourown and do not annoy international community.", "votes": 6 }, { "id": 200339, "postDate": "2017-07-07T15:04:15.543Z", "content": "Apparently no sense of humor in the international community ??
", "rawMarkdown": "Apparently no sense of humor in the international community ??", "votes": -4 }, { "id": 200802, "postDate": "2017-07-09T12:07:50.207Z", "content": "\n\n\nAdditionally, from my view, my taxes paying for this - I don't want to share :)
\n
So why do you bother to participate in Mercedes competition (from Germany ) ? ^^
", "rawMarkdown": "> Additionally, from my view, my taxes paying for this - I don't want to share :)\n\nSo why do you bother to participate in Mercedes competition (from Germany ) ? ^^", "votes": 11 }, { "id": 201014, "postDate": "2017-07-10T07:33:09.150Z", "content": "Apparently no sense of humor in the international community ??
\n\nSo you think kaggle is a place for your humor? lol what kind of species are you?
", "rawMarkdown": "Apparently no sense of humor in the international community ??\n\nSo you think kaggle is a place for your humor? lol what kind of species are you?", "votes": 2 } ] }, { "id": 228461, "postDate": "2017-10-06T19:03:28.717Z", "content": "The US has very clear laws that require these rules. Don't like our laws? Too bad.
", "rawMarkdown": "The US has very clear laws that require these rules. Don't like our laws? Too bad.", "votes": -7, "replies": [ { "id": 228464, "postDate": "2017-10-06T19:06:44.503Z", "content": "You gonna be kidding about clear laws (in any country). And laws aren't set in stone and are subject to change.
", "rawMarkdown": "You gonna be kidding about clear laws (in any country). And laws aren't set in stone and are subject to change.", "votes": 6 }, { "id": 228481, "postDate": "2017-10-06T19:53:16.180Z", "content": "It is not just a matter of US laws. Each country has a set of benefits that are available only to its citizens and nobody else. I am sure Norway has rules that prevent non-citizens from getting certain benefits. There are ML competitions in UK that are only open to their citizens or at most to EU citizens. C'est la vie.
\n\nIt is not necessarily something we should like, but it certainly is not meant to be discrimination. It has do to with how the taxpayers' money is used - in some instances non-citizens are not eligible. There are historical precedents for why such rules are in place, and they go beyond Kaggle competitions.
", "rawMarkdown": "It is not just a matter of US laws. Each country has a set of benefits that are available only to its citizens and nobody else. I am sure Norway has rules that prevent non-citizens from getting certain benefits. There are ML competitions in UK that are only open to their citizens or at most to EU citizens. C'est la vie.\n\nIt is not necessarily something we should like, but it certainly is not meant to be discrimination. It has do to with how the taxpayers' money is used - in some instances non-citizens are not eligible. There are historical precedents for why such rules are in place, and they go beyond Kaggle competitions.", "votes": 6 } ] }, { "id": 213305, "postDate": "2017-08-14T12:20:38.170Z", "content": "Don't like the rules don't compete. Injustice averted. Perhaps wherever your from has a similar contest that Americans are allowed to participate and win in? Unlikely.
", "rawMarkdown": "Don't like the rules don't compete. Injustice averted. Perhaps wherever your from has a similar contest that Americans are allowed to participate and win in? Unlikely.", "votes": -8, "replies": [ { "id": 216750, "postDate": "2017-08-28T01:07:46.950Z", "content": "nobody will concern with that if the american done great job and deserves to
", "rawMarkdown": "nobody will concern with that if the american done great job and deserves to" } ] }, { "id": 202666, "postDate": "2017-07-13T02:08:48.633Z", "content": "I'm American. Put me on your team. If you win I'll transfer the money evenly among the members(excluding me) - US Taxes and a 15% service fee.
", "rawMarkdown": "I'm American. Put me on your team. If you win I'll transfer the money evenly among the members(excluding me) - US Taxes and a 15% service fee.", "votes": -13 }, { "id": 196937, "postDate": "2017-06-28T12:39:11.550Z", "content": "I think it is because of law. BUT kaggle should not make this rule hidden.
", "rawMarkdown": "I think it is because of law. BUT kaggle should not make this rule hidden.", "votes": -2 }, { "id": 195851, "postDate": "2017-06-25T10:27:08.797Z", "content": "I presume the rule has something to do with maintaining a facade of American exceptionalism.
", "rawMarkdown": "I presume the rule has something to do with maintaining a facade of American exceptionalism.", "votes": -2 }, { "id": 195491, "postDate": "2017-06-23T18:47:03.680Z", "content": "кто не с нами то против нас.
", "rawMarkdown": "кто не с нами то против нас.", "votes": -7, "replies": [ { "id": 195655, "postDate": "2017-06-24T11:26:11.887Z", "content": "don't read cryllic, still appreciate this
", "rawMarkdown": "don't read cryllic, still appreciate this", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 198788, "postDate": "2017-07-03T18:12:34.057Z", "content": "В США есть законы и их соблюдают. Это деньги из бюджета США и их можно заплатить только лицам, имеющим право работать с США. Плюс видимо есть ограничение экспортного контроля раз только гринкартовци добавлены, а не все имеющие право на работу. Так что по закону дискриминации нет. Обычно такие данные не раздают открыто, так что надо сказать спасибо за возможность работать с интересными данными.
\n\nTranslation:\nIn the US there are laws and they are observed. This is money from the US budget and they can be paid only to persons who are authorized to work in US. Plus, apparently there is a restriction on export controls once only green card holders have been added, and not all authorized to work in US. So according to the law there is no discrimination. Usually such data is not distributed openly, so people must say thank you for the opportunity to work with such interesting data.
", "rawMarkdown": "В США есть законы и их соблюдают. Это деньги из бюджета США и их можно заплатить только лицам, имеющим право работать с США. Плюс видимо есть ограничение экспортного контроля раз только гринкартовци добавлены, а не все имеющие право на работу. Так что по закону дискриминации нет. Обычно такие данные не раздают открыто, так что надо сказать спасибо за возможность работать с интересными данными. \n\nTranslation:\nIn the US there are laws and they are observed. This is money from the US budget and they can be paid only to persons who are authorized to work in US. Plus, apparently there is a restriction on export controls once only green card holders have been added, and not all authorized to work in US. So according to the law there is no discrimination. Usually such data is not distributed openly, so people must say thank you for the opportunity to work with such interesting data.", "votes": 2 }, { "id": 198836, "postDate": "2017-07-03T21:05:46.570Z", "content": "There are always law when government do something. If it doing something quite opposite -- there also could be a law for that. Not a big deal. yeah?
\n\nSo, there is a rule that when US Govt sponsoring competitions only US citizens are eligible to receive money. This rule maybe introduced with some nice intention and so on. Now US Govt goes to international community and wants it solve some tough challenge. Everything is nice, however, there is a rule, you know, a law, an unbreakable and given to us from above. Why bother finding a way to include everybody and show respect to the community you addressing to? There is a law and referring to that fact is the easiest way for some bureaucrat to deal with this kind of situation.
\n\nThere are trillions are spent by US Govt every year including many billions in payments to all kind of international recipients. Probably even those scanners were made somewhere in China (at least some of their parts were, I bet it).
\n\nSurely, DHS could only allocate funds under provisions of America Competes Act that should be paid only to Americans (nobody will even check that, its hundreds of pages of crosslinked legalese). And there couldn't be any other way, like paying prizes from some other article of its 40 billion budget, like buying software from winners (is there a law prohibiting Us Govt to buy software from non-residents?).
\n\nIt was just the easiest way for everybody to deal with this kind of situation. Just tell them that there is a law and all done, no thinking required, everybody happily agree.
", "rawMarkdown": "There are always law when government do something. If it doing something quite opposite -- there also could be a law for that. Not a big deal. yeah? \n\nSo, there is a rule that when US Govt sponsoring competitions only US citizens are eligible to receive money. This rule maybe introduced with some nice intention and so on. Now US Govt goes to international community and wants it solve some tough challenge. Everything is nice, however, there is a rule, you know, a **law**, an unbreakable and given to us from above. Why bother finding a way to include everybody and show respect to the community you addressing to? There is a law and referring to that fact is the easiest way for some bureaucrat to deal with this kind of situation. \n\nThere are trillions are spent by US Govt every year including many billions in payments to all kind of international recipients. Probably even those scanners were made somewhere in China (at least some of their parts were, I bet it). \n\nSurely, DHS could only allocate funds under provisions of America Competes Act that should be paid only to Americans (nobody will even check that, its hundreds of pages of crosslinked legalese). And there couldn't be any other way, like paying prizes from some other article of its 40 billion budget, like buying software from winners (is there a law prohibiting Us Govt to buy software from non-residents?). \n\nIt was just the easiest way for everybody to deal with this kind of situation. Just tell them that there is a law and all done, no thinking required, everybody happily agree.\n\n", "votes": 2 }, { "id": 198840, "postDate": "2017-07-03T21:11:47.763Z", "content": "btw, this data isn't distributed openly. It is provided to solve this particular challenge, we don't have any rights to use it for whatever other purpose. The only useful thing you could take away from this data is your knowledge how to deal with such data in the future (if you will be able to deal with its size, proprietary format and so on).
", "rawMarkdown": "btw, this data isn't distributed openly. It is provided to solve this particular challenge, we don't have any rights to use it for whatever other purpose. The only useful thing you could take away from this data is your knowledge how to deal with such data in the future (if you will be able to deal with its size, proprietary format and so on). " }, { "id": 198866, "postDate": "2017-07-03T23:07:17.230Z", "content": "> Usually such data is not distributed openly, so people must say thank you for the opportunity to work with such interesting data.
\n\nThat's true, however only half true: Kaggle is first and foremost a research collaboration, and every competition is massive research, where organizers get free what normally cost big $$$, esp. for problems like this one. And who must thank who is a question (not really). That is why involvement into competition those not authorized for payment is annoying and questionable from a moral point of view. In my opinion, such competition should be held privately.
", "rawMarkdown": "> Usually such data is not distributed openly, so people must say thank you for the opportunity to work with such interesting data.\n\nThat's true, however only half true: Kaggle is first and foremost a research collaboration, and every competition is massive research, where organizers get free what normally cost big $$$, esp. for problems like this one. And who must thank who is a question (not really). That is why involvement into competition those not authorized for payment is annoying and questionable from a moral point of view. In my opinion, such competition should be held privately.", "votes": 2 }, { "id": 198907, "postDate": "2017-07-04T04:14:33.587Z", "content": "Yeah, take for example what DSTL writes about value of Kaggle:
\n\n\n\n\nThe Defence Science and Technology Laboratory’s (Dstl) data science competition on Kaggle attracted over 5,000 submitted solutions. This equates to over £2.5m of research - a seven fold return on the cost of running the competition.
\n
While the exact number is quite questionable, the point is clear -- companies get a lot from hosting Kaggle competition. And this competition wasn't especially challenging in comparison to this one -- no terabytes of data, relatively simple and known task, (more) usual data formats. Still, they value results at more than $3.2m. Who knows what value TSA estimates to get (given 15-fold higher prizes it may expect 10-15 times more value, isn't it?) but it is clearly in range of several millions. Quite high return to demand also a \"thank you for data\" from community in addition.
", "rawMarkdown": "Yeah, take for example what DSTL writes about value of Kaggle: \n\n> The Defence Science and Technology Laboratory’s (Dstl) data science competition on Kaggle attracted over 5,000 submitted solutions. **This equates to over £2.5m of research** - a seven fold return on the cost of running the competition. \n\nWhile the exact number is quite questionable, the point is clear -- companies get a lot from hosting Kaggle competition. And this competition wasn't especially challenging in comparison to this one -- no terabytes of data, relatively simple and known task, (more) usual data formats. Still, they value results at more than $3.2m. Who knows what value TSA estimates to get (given 15-fold higher prizes it may expect 10-15 times more value, isn't it?) but it is clearly in range of several millions. Quite high return to demand also a \"thank you for data\" from community in addition.", "votes": 1 } ] }, { "id": 803948, "postDate": "2020-04-11T03:38:19.190Z", "content": "@ceperaang Agree with you!!
", "rawMarkdown": "@ceperaang Agree with you!!" }, { "id": 756419, "postDate": "2020-02-25T17:56:04.937Z", "content": "Well said...
", "rawMarkdown": "Well said..." }, { "id": 745179, "postDate": "2020-02-13T15:31:28.403Z", "content": "Very well said
", "rawMarkdown": "Very well said\n" }, { "id": 725342, "postDate": "2020-01-22T02:26:40.647Z", "content": "So this was posted 3 years ago....have things changed now?
", "rawMarkdown": "So this was posted 3 years ago....have things changed now?" }, { "id": 709396, "postDate": "2020-01-03T12:59:49.033Z", "content": "Well said
", "rawMarkdown": "Well said\n" }, { "id": 697567, "postDate": "2019-12-18T05:11:42.593Z", "content": "comment
", "rawMarkdown": "comment" }, { "id": 676357, "postDate": "2019-11-19T05:36:06.097Z", "content": "This trend is scary
", "rawMarkdown": "This trend is scary" }, { "id": 656196, "postDate": "2019-10-24T02:09:29.483Z", "content": "hm
", "rawMarkdown": "hm" }, { "id": 655959, "postDate": "2019-10-23T18:06:32.913Z", "content": "Well said.
", "rawMarkdown": "Well said." }, { "id": 623362, "postDate": "2019-09-10T20:00:14.977Z", "content": "Is it your opinion or Elon Musk's opinion?
", "rawMarkdown": "Is it your opinion or Elon Musk's opinion?" }, { "id": 620575, "postDate": "2019-09-07T17:35:53.887Z", "content": "Well said
", "rawMarkdown": "Well said" }, { "id": 600563, "postDate": "2019-08-16T09:29:32.273Z", "content": "Totally agree!!!
", "rawMarkdown": "Totally agree!!!" }, { "id": 597404, "postDate": "2019-08-12T09:40:41.723Z", "content": "agreed!
", "rawMarkdown": "agreed!" }, { "id": 585088, "postDate": "2019-07-26T23:57:33.183Z", "content": "good job!
", "rawMarkdown": "good job!" }, { "id": 546446, "postDate": "2019-06-06T15:38:01.373Z", "content": "Politics should never go beyond academy!
", "rawMarkdown": "Politics should never go beyond academy! " }, { "id": 534561, "postDate": "2019-05-21T13:13:58.570Z", "content": "interesting
", "rawMarkdown": "interesting" }, { "id": 527654, "postDate": "2019-05-06T03:11:32.503Z", "content": "gj
", "rawMarkdown": "gj" }, { "id": 525628, "postDate": "2019-05-01T12:23:56.803Z", "content": "wonderful
", "rawMarkdown": "wonderful" }, { "id": 523903, "postDate": "2019-04-27T10:43:27.820Z", "content": "Good point.
", "rawMarkdown": "Good point." }, { "id": 517640, "postDate": "2019-04-16T09:50:43.377Z", "content": "well said
", "rawMarkdown": "well said " }, { "id": 509363, "postDate": "2019-04-07T17:54:55.467Z", "content": "Nice!
", "rawMarkdown": "Nice!" }, { "id": 434684, "postDate": "2018-12-06T19:37:30.080Z", "content": "sad :(
", "rawMarkdown": "sad :(" }, { "id": 389314, "postDate": "2018-09-18T14:27:43.483Z", "content": "Rules .. rules...
", "rawMarkdown": "Rules .. rules..." }, { "id": 374956, "postDate": "2018-08-24T08:54:43.557Z", "content": "Great! I like it!
", "rawMarkdown": "Great! I like it!" }, { "id": 354370, "postDate": "2018-07-09T11:58:38.920Z", "content": "It's really annoying!
", "rawMarkdown": "It's really annoying!" }, { "id": 291411, "postDate": "2018-03-06T04:33:42.090Z", "content": "Oooh this looks like a contraversy :(
", "rawMarkdown": "Oooh this looks like a contraversy :(" }, { "id": 266223, "postDate": "2018-01-08T06:09:57.310Z", "content": "This is really frustrating
", "rawMarkdown": "This is really frustrating" }, { "id": 256620, "postDate": "2017-12-12T12:02:17.883Z", "content": "Maybe Bitcoin or another cryptocurrency could solve these type of issues. It also makes sense that Kaggle is avoiding the legal overhead of managing payments overseas so they can focus on the platform.
", "rawMarkdown": "Maybe Bitcoin or another cryptocurrency could solve these type of issues. It also makes sense that Kaggle is avoiding the legal overhead of managing payments overseas so they can focus on the platform." }, { "id": 253058, "postDate": "2017-12-04T11:48:10.797Z", "content": "This is a point.
", "rawMarkdown": "This is a point." }, { "id": 239890, "postDate": "2017-11-04T22:29:15.253Z", "content": "This is my first comment!
", "rawMarkdown": "This is my first comment! " }, { "id": 225589, "postDate": "2017-09-29T15:22:34.267Z", "content": "I don't think the payment issue can justify this sort of discrimination.
", "rawMarkdown": "I don't think the payment issue can justify this sort of discrimination." }, { "id": 202351, "postDate": "2017-07-12T10:36:24.443Z", "content": "Why would anyone want to help TSA ?\nRemember its Toilet Safety Administration !
", "rawMarkdown": "Why would anyone want to help TSA ?\nRemember its Toilet Safety Administration !" }, { "id": 199659, "postDate": "2017-07-06T03:56:37.330Z", "rawMarkdown": "" }, { "id": 198469, "postDate": "2017-07-02T14:57:44.767Z", "content": "I think so too. I strongly support you.
", "rawMarkdown": "I think so too. I strongly support you." }, { "id": 197826, "postDate": "2017-06-30T09:27:56.937Z", "content": "Strong language but I tend to agree.
", "rawMarkdown": "Strong language but I tend to agree." }, { "id": 196166, "postDate": "2017-06-26T14:04:53.150Z", "content": "totally agree!
", "rawMarkdown": "totally agree! " }, { "id": 196081, "postDate": "2017-06-26T09:46:46.233Z", "content": "Boycot
", "rawMarkdown": "Boycot" }, { "id": 761014, "postDate": "2020-03-02T03:08:31.667Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "isDeleted": true }, { "id": 751570, "postDate": "2020-02-20T09:39:38.970Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "isDeleted": true }, { "id": 745683, "postDate": "2020-02-14T04:37:38.890Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "isDeleted": true }, { "id": 711714, "postDate": "2020-01-06T13:06:43.693Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "isDeleted": true }, { "id": 607069, "postDate": "2019-08-24T15:03:32.690Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "isDeleted": true }, { "id": 511138, "postDate": "2019-04-09T19:39:11.963Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "isDeleted": true }, { "id": 493877, "postDate": "2019-03-19T07:44:16.190Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "isDeleted": true }, { "id": 402783, "postDate": "2018-10-12T10:04:59.820Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "isDeleted": true }, { "id": 392386, "postDate": "2018-09-23T17:17:15.573Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "isDeleted": true }, { "id": 366789, "postDate": "2018-08-06T14:13:09.177Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "isDeleted": true }, { "id": 361810, "postDate": "2018-07-25T05:51:30.480Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "isDeleted": true }, { "id": 198191, "postDate": "2017-07-01T09:43:18.677Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": 9, "isDeleted": true, "replies": [ { "id": 199658, "postDate": "2017-07-06T03:53:09.960Z", "content": "Can you please clarify Trump's involvement?\nYou sound too intelligent to be making comments based on stupid assumptions, so please share your facts:)
", "rawMarkdown": "Can you please clarify Trump's involvement?\nYou sound too intelligent to be making comments based on stupid assumptions, so please share your facts:)", "votes": 5 }, { "id": 203326, "postDate": "2017-07-14T15:45:09.233Z", "content": "Pretty sure it was a joke...
", "rawMarkdown": "Pretty sure it was a joke...", "votes": 5 } ] }, { "id": 195348, "postDate": "2017-06-23T10:28:02.250Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": 12, "isDeleted": true }, { "id": 195223, "postDate": "2017-06-23T01:17:24.520Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "isDeleted": true }, { "id": 769833, "postDate": "2020-03-12T10:15:52.970Z", "content": "Very insightful, thank you!
", "rawMarkdown": "Very insightful, thank you!" }, { "id": 745682, "postDate": "2020-02-14T04:36:56.337Z", "content": "thank you for your advice
", "rawMarkdown": "thank you for your advice " }, { "id": 712748, "postDate": "2020-01-07T14:54:46.420Z", "content": "Thanks for sharing man...
", "rawMarkdown": "Thanks for sharing man..." }, { "id": 705511, "postDate": "2019-12-29T01:31:18.663Z", "content": "Thanks
", "rawMarkdown": "Thanks" }, { "id": 607814, "postDate": "2019-08-25T23:39:23.310Z", "content": "Thank you for sharing
", "rawMarkdown": "Thank you for sharing" }, { "id": 548917, "postDate": "2019-06-10T05:17:11.700Z", "content": "Thank you for sharing : ))
", "rawMarkdown": "Thank you for sharing : ))" }, { "id": 510473, "postDate": "2019-04-09T06:08:42.453Z", "content": "Thanks for sharing.
", "rawMarkdown": "Thanks for sharing. " }, { "id": 480689, "postDate": "2019-02-28T14:21:06.743Z", "content": "Very thoughtful. Thanks.
", "rawMarkdown": "Very thoughtful. Thanks." }, { "id": 359572, "postDate": "2018-07-20T11:26:24.823Z", "content": "Thank you !
", "rawMarkdown": "Thank you !" }, { "id": 712980, "postDate": "2020-01-07T19:40:02.253Z", "rawMarkdown": "Thanks for this nice work", "isDeleted": true } ], "comments": [ { "id": 195031, "author_name": "Vladimir Iglovikov", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T16:41:05.453000", "content": "This is really frustrating, that this shady business is becoming more and more popular in the scientific community:
\n\nRussian data scientist unable to claim £12,000 prize in Brit competition
", "votes": 152, "replies": [ { "id": 195347, "author_name": "Dmitrii Storozhenko", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T10:21:17.387000", "content": "That's frustrating and sad at all. That policy games going nowhere.
", "votes": 5, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195618, "author_name": "Suraj Sihag", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-24T08:18:22.690000", "content": "I'm sorry for you that you had to face such kind of discrimination.
", "votes": 5, "replies": [] }, { "id": 196705, "author_name": "Oleg Trott", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-28T00:48:25.757000", "content": "\n\n\nThis is really frustrating, that this shady business is becoming more\n and more popular in the scientific community:
\n
Residence-based eligibility requirements have always been quite common in science funding competitions.
\n\nFor example, the NIH has them:
\n\nhttps://grants.nih.gov/grants/policy/nihgps/html5/section_12/12.3_eligibility.htm
", "votes": 2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 216204, "author_name": "Ivan", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-08-24T19:29:16.473000", "content": "It's really very stupid to use such an indexes like corruption level in estimating of ML competition.\nCorruption Level - is not an estimate of some real-world value, it's can be verify or cross-validated, it's some kind of magic or religion. let's take some noisy parameters and make linear regression to calculate corruption level. Oo China is pretty good. Lets change some coeeficients - China is not so good already.\nRussia had a score of less than 37 on the Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index for 2014. \nOMG, such kind of biased, unreliable, noisy, magic estimator of country is good (joke) for music or sport competition, but not for competiotion in ML.
", "votes": 4, "replies": [] }, { "id": 562786, "author_name": "Yoon", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-06-27T14:37:28.837000", "content": "totally agree
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 753864, "author_name": "Sachin ", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-02-22T18:44:14.060000", "content": "\n", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 196206, "author_name": "Dmitriy Guller", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-26T16:27:29.640000", "content": "Vladimir Iglovikov wrote:
\n \nThis is really frustrating, that this shady business is becoming more and more popular in the scientific community:
\n \nRussian data scientist unable to claim £12,000 prize in Brit competition
\n
I think the real mistake Kaggle made here was trying to have it both ways. You cannot have a competition with two classes of competitors, where some compete for money and points while others just for points. And how exactly are Kagglers supposed to confirm someone's legal residency status when forming teams?
\n\nI personally think it's perfectly fine for competition sponsors that pay the bills to impose whatever restrictions they want (or in this case forced to by law), but then it has to be a closed competition where you have to prove eligibility before you can compete, and no Kaggle points should be awarded. If you want access to the entire talent pool, you have to drop the restrictions, or live with the far lower participation rate of closed competitions.
", "votes": 76, "replies": [ { "id": 199341, "author_name": "Jules", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-05T11:27:51.200000", "content": "I totally agree!
", "votes": 6, "replies": [] }, { "id": 234908, "author_name": "Guy Giesa-Wilson", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-10-24T09:57:47.643000", "content": "Excellent point
", "votes": 1, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 236069, "author_name": "Will", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-10-26T16:31:37.500000", "content": "I think Elon Musk said something that, taken slightly out of context, could contribute to this conversation.
\n\n“This is not out of some desire of SpaceX to just hire people with green cards,” Musk said. “It’s because we’re not allowed to do anything else. This is not a wise policy for the US, because there are so many talented people all around the world that we would love to have work at our company. But unless they can somehow get a green card, we’re legally prevented from hiring” them. (sic) (source, below)
\n\nThough I have no legal experience, I would speculate that there is much complexity surrounding the legality of paying money to foreign participants. This isn't just inclusive to this event; this is setting precedent. I mean, look how the probe is going with respect to Russian interference in 2016 election. As people are finding out that Russian politicians and citizens were even meeting with American politicians, we are stuck with a question about what motivations are, and how it affected the outcome.
\n\nThe common person does not understand data science. The common person does not understand Kaggle. The common person does not understand Artificial Intelligence, and I dare speculate that the common person, might actually fears concepts such as AI or the implications of the \"Roko's Basilisk\" thought experiment.
\n\nAnd mistake me not, for I do not disparage my fellow for lack of intelligence. As a wise man once said, in a popular movie:
\n\n\"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow.\" (source, below)
\n\nNow imagine that misled ignorance in the hands of dubious, click-bait news media. Imagine the potential for spin and ad-revenue as the common person finds out that US dollars are leaving the country, and potentially falling into the hands of one of our so-called \"political rivals\" abroad (sorry, international community; we love you, but your governments and our governments are, well, occasionally a little misguided).
\n\nImagine the hypothetical \"public outcry\" if US citizens were to find out that our Department of Homeland Security paid a group of Russian hackers a million dollars to optimize our search algorithms for airport scanners (insert scary-sounding technical explanation, here). The common person doesn't care that we are more safe. They only see, \"words, words, words, Department of Homeland Security, words, words, Russian Hackers, words, paid a million bucks, words, words, words\" and they don't like that because a million dollars is a lot of money (to them) and the Russian Hackers are \"the bad guy\".
\n\nIt's not about the ends justifies the means. It's about \"image\", and sadly, the people in power care more about \"image\" than results. In short, when it comes to scientific advancement in humanity: same shit, different day.
\n\nSources:
\nhttps://qz.com/794101/elon-musk-explains-why-he-doesnt-hire-much-foreign-talent-at-spacex/\nhttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119654/quotes
Thank you for sharing!
", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 269867, "author_name": "Muiz Vhora", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-01-17T12:29:02.093000", "content": "Very thoughtful. Thanks.
", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 293692, "author_name": "Lalit Gupta", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-03-10T11:34:08.840000", "content": "This is very thoughtful.
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 353285, "author_name": "Nikhil Kaushik", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-07-06T11:07:05.113000", "content": "Well said.
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 403996, "author_name": "Ali Mai", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-10-15T04:10:50.010000", "content": "well said
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 406703, "author_name": "Kubilay Yavuz", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-10-19T17:15:16.997000", "content": "well said
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 418630, "author_name": "KangHweeChiat", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-11-10T09:59:54.187000", "content": "Well said
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 484366, "author_name": "Andrew M. Silva", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-03-05T22:22:20.817000", "content": "Thank you for sharing!
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 515732, "author_name": "Jiachen Dang", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-04-13T03:16:58.660000", "content": "Well said
", "votes": -1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 523992, "author_name": "AndreaStragiotti", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-04-27T15:48:17.610000", "content": "Thank you!
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 528776, "author_name": "Radiokosmos", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-05-08T14:30:23.553000", "content": "Well said
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 559321, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-06-23T22:37:42.183000", "content": "Well said
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 576845, "author_name": "Dzemidka Dzmitry", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-07-16T05:04:12.637000", "content": "Well said
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 604630, "author_name": "Nainesh Hulke", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-08-21T15:30:54.797000", "content": "Thanks !
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 623625, "author_name": "DaveTabong", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-09-11T06:48:09.507000", "content": "Thanks!
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 626682, "author_name": "Kiram Al-Kharba", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-09-14T17:20:42.660000", "content": "Thanks!
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 638137, "author_name": "Diego Lins de Freitas", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-10-01T15:07:06.250000", "content": "agreed
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 666571, "author_name": "Evgeny Kondratov", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-06T08:33:56.960000", "content": "Great said!
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 668928, "author_name": "kiccho", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-09T05:34:04.027000", "content": "Thanks a lot! That helped me a lot.
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 708961, "author_name": "Shannon Chowdhury", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-01-02T21:52:49.837000", "content": "Well said!
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 711019, "author_name": "hyeonwookRYU", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-01-05T15:08:17.200000", "content": "Well said.
", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 726363, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-01-23T01:27:56.713000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 775662, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-03-16T23:22:11.937000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 805062, "author_name": "Ishitwa Viranchi", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-04-12T09:55:17.270000", "content": "agreed
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 195041, "author_name": "Cut Onion", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T17:03:52.700000", "content": "That is a shame, that Google, who now owns the Kaggle agreed to such terms. It means they got theirs cut for organizing this competition without any consideration of how frustrating and damaging to the community such discrimination could be. One of the most profitable companies in the world buying the Kaggle and willing to ruin reputation that was built for years as place where anybody could take part and compete based on their merits not origin. And for what? For several millions $ (at best)?
\n\nI don't understand what reaction are you expecting. \"We don't have anything to do with that, there are some arbitrary rules of DHS and we couldn't resist to comply with them\". No. You shouldn't trade respect and trust from WORLDWIDE AND INTERNATIONAL community to hosts competition with such rules. Just don't.
\n\nIt is hard to overstate how frustrated and enraged I am and. surely, many others. Just... Doh, I don't have any more non-obscene words for it.
", "votes": 76, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195038, "author_name": "Shujian Liu", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T16:51:55.623000", "content": "I guess only non-US citizens can deeply understand how frustrating it is to go through the US airport security. However, we don't have the motivation to solve this problem here.
", "votes": 40, "replies": [ { "id": 195040, "author_name": "Vladimir Iglovikov", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T17:01:59.210000", "content": "(With respect to the current rules I am eligible to claim prize money if I win, so this message is not about how I am jealous or some other mental issues. I am just frustrated when it comes to discrimination in a scientific community)
\n\nThe motivation for every competition is knowledge and fun. Money is an optional bonus.
\n\nI understand, secrets, security and everything in the mind of the organizers is extremely important. Sure. But leave it at work. This is different environment. This is scientific community and science is above all of this.
\n\nAnother thing:
\n\nQuestions to Kaggle admins:
\n\n@Vladimir, you made a great point.
", "votes": 7, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195044, "author_name": "Murali krishna teja", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T17:11:21.053000", "content": "@Vladimir, by a quick look. Probably 33-35 out of top 40 Kagglers doesn't seem to be US citizens or permanent residents. That's more than 80%.
", "votes": 29, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195046, "author_name": "iesh00a", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T17:13:45.923000", "content": "It's more strange because It is not about \"secrets, security\": everybody has access to the dataset, private (at the future) and public score, discussions and so on. Hence, motivation is more than unclear for me.
", "votes": 16, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195179, "author_name": "Serigne ", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T22:12:23.310000", "content": "+1 Vladimir\nI didn't expect such discriminatory rules in data science community and scientific mindset people.
\n\nWhat a shame !
", "votes": 2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195553, "author_name": "Shujian Liu", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-24T00:56:47.100000", "content": "Some statistics if anyone needs: https://www.kaggle.com/andreyg/top-100-kaggle-users-by-country
", "votes": 3, "replies": [] }, { "id": 196001, "author_name": "Guang Chen", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-26T02:38:03.367000", "content": "As far as I know, there are many kaggler (student, researcher, etc.) living in US who aren't not citizen or legally permanent resident.
", "votes": 2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 196189, "author_name": "Charles Jansen", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-26T14:54:33.207000", "content": "exactly!
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 196250, "author_name": "Serigne ", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-26T20:12:55.297000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 199157, "author_name": "moefasa", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-04T19:23:58.263000", "content": "@Dawnbreaker, you're correct, but they technically aren't allowed to work for government organizations like the NSA. I get the frustration, but keep in mind the TSA probably has it's own regulations it needs to follow. I think it's a nice start that they're doing this in the first place.
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 235338, "author_name": "SN", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-10-25T07:00:40.117000", "content": "@Serigne salut serigne je vois tu es sénégalais intéressé aux data, mon email diao.ibrahimat@gmail.com, on pourra discuter.
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 195329, "author_name": "Abhishek Thakur", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T09:20:27.743000", "content": "What's more funny is they decided to host the competition on a website started by an Australian!
", "votes": 45, "replies": [ { "id": 199337, "author_name": "Timothy Stuart Banks", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-05T10:51:54.273000", "content": "I didn't know that! You're right --- the wikipedia page mentions Kaggle started in Melbourne (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaggle)
", "votes": 1, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 196096, "author_name": "Shahrouz Raeisi", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-26T11:00:36.237000", "content": "Simply do not enter into this competition even if you are eligible. This kind of competitions should not be allowed on Kaggle. We are here to build a data science community regardless the race and nationality. I believe this should not be overlooked by no means.
", "votes": 38, "replies": [ { "id": 212870, "author_name": "James Tollefson", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-08-12T23:29:15.010000", "content": "That's a completely unrealistic stance to take. This isn't a case of discrimination, its a case of crappy, antiquated government budgeting rules. You aren't going to change those by taking a principled stand and boycotting this competition (which wouldn't work anyway because with this large of a cash prize there will be enough entrants that noone will notice anyway). You only show the stupidity of it by winning the competition as a non-U.S. citizen and then refusing to part with your code unless you are paid.
\n\nIn all likelihood you'll be skipped over and not paid. But the point will have been made, as others have noted previously on this thread, that the best solution is not the one the government ended up with. And that will make legislators sit up and take notice in a way no half-hearted boycott ever could.
\n\nRefusing to participate, in this context, is actually a pretty self-destructive and counter-productive move. Assuming, of course, you actually have the skill to do well in this competition in the first place.
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 195526, "author_name": "Qingchen", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T21:16:52.527000", "content": "This is rather sad. The TSA has had a terrible reputation for precisely the problems mentioned in this competition overview's description. When I saw this competition I thought that it's really cool as it kind of gives us a sense that the TSA cares about the people on the wrong end of these problems, that they acknowledge them and are trying hard to improve. Unfortunately barring non-US citizens or permanent residents from winning the prize is a pretty terrible thing to do, mostly because much of the Kaggle community is indeed international, and it's this international community which made Kaggle as popular as its become through acts of inclusiveness by sharing skills and knowledge with the world. The hurdle of citizenship status and H1B visas is already one of the biggest reasons keeping a large portion of tech talent from working in the US, and now it has been brought onto Kaggle. I think such a non-inclusive competition should be set up as either a private competition, or something like one of those \"master-only\" ones. Having 5000+ teams competing is good for marketing, which is good for everybody, but exploiting the community to do so with such exclusionary prize eligibility is wrong.
\n\nIf America really wants to compete, then perhaps the $1.5 million would be better spent on renovating a run-down school in the inner cities.
", "votes": 30, "replies": [ { "id": 195652, "author_name": "Kirk Hadley", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-24T11:19:31.113000", "content": "No run down schools anywhere else amiright?!\nAlso- I think this is more Kaggle's fault than the government's, frankly. It's a well known, and if one pauses to consider the matter outside of this particular context, fairly reasonable matter of law that the federal government cannot use taxpayer funds to enrich a foreign national. Now obviously said legal concept is pretty irrelevant here, but it is nonetheless still the law. Kaggle should have foreseen this, and, with an eye towards the long term rather than short run profits from easy federal $, not pursued competitions from which non-American users were barred.
", "votes": 9, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 195045, "author_name": "Andrey Lukyanenko", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T17:12:40.343000", "content": "I support this. Science shouldn't be limited by countries.
", "votes": 27, "replies": [] }, { "id": 196866, "author_name": "Mohsin hasan", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-28T09:19:52.117000", "content": "After seeing this, I wish there was a button to downvote competitions!!!
", "votes": 23, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195092, "author_name": "Arseny Kravchenko", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T18:11:31.767000", "content": "I will not be surprised to see new competitions with limitations on ethnicity, gender, religion or sexuality. \nShame on you, Kaggle. This insincerity is totally insulting.
", "votes": 40, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195729, "author_name": "Binil George", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-24T18:47:15.337000", "content": "Can't believe a Kaggle competiton has such a restriction. How did Kaggle allowed to host such a competition?\nThis is despicable. Please change the rules or remove this competition from the web site.
", "votes": 19, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195070, "author_name": "Mohammad Shadab Alam", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T17:49:50.480000", "content": "Welcome to the world of Kaggle Discrimination !
", "votes": 23, "replies": [ { "id": 195071, "author_name": "Mohammad Shadab Alam", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T17:50:41.573000", "content": "Its very hard and disturbing to believe that this is really happening
", "votes": 9, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 195109, "author_name": "Ankasor", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T19:17:50.183000", "content": "I don't blame the DOH for having to put rules like this on its competition, but I do blame Kaggle for accepting to host it for them under these circumstances. Way to piss off a big part of your community.
", "votes": 20, "replies": [] }, { "id": 207928, "author_name": "pete", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-27T22:56:44.093000", "content": "Full disclosure: I am a US citizen and I dont intend to boycott.
\n\nBut the restriction is ill advised. US data scientists just aren't guaranteed to dominate in these competitions - they are often won by citizens of other countries. So I recommend that everyone enter, even if you cant win a prize. But dont submit your code - you will still be seen on the leaderboard. When the organizers see the high ranks dominated by foreigners, they will have a quandary - there are better detection algorithms out there and we are not using them! And foreigners understand our data better than we do - cant they use that knowledge to foil the screening? I forsee impassioned speeches in the senate and an executive order to pay off the real winners.
", "votes": 15, "replies": [ { "id": 219289, "author_name": "عثمان", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-09-07T16:12:34.430000", "content": "\n\n\nWhen the organizers see the high ranks dominated by foreigners, they will have a quandary - there are better detection algorithms out there and we are not using them!
\n
Wishful thinking, but they really don't care.
\n\nDo you honest believe the 'organizers' i.e. Kaggle / the US govt, think that american data scientists are inherently the smartest in the world? Just being born someone doesn't make them more or less intellectual than anyone else, and our organizers already know that. The issue here isn't about 'proving' to them that foreigners to the US are capable...
", "votes": 1, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 195238, "author_name": "Thomio Watanabe", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T02:33:14.433000", "content": "This is really sad.
\nThis information should be in the first page, not hidden inside the hidden rules tab.
\nI vote for non-us citizens to not participate. Count on me.
I wonder what would happen if the rules also included something like \"Non-american software cannot be used\", hidden in as well.
\n\nAnd yes, this is very sad.
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195395, "author_name": "Thomio Watanabe", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T13:53:44.150000", "content": "IMO, they decided to host this competition in Kaggle because of its visibility.
\nKaggle is not only famous among American universities, but in the entire world.
\nCrowd competitions like this are successful when they get a large number of participants.
\nThey can get a huge improvement from small contributions of different peers.
\nThus I think if we really want to be heard and respected we should not participate.
I also believe it would be more appropriated for the Homeland department host this competition in their website like many other American competitions.
\nKaggle should not host competitions that discriminate competitors by they origin, religion, age, sex, disability...
\nIf you participate you not only agree with their terms but you also encourage Kaggle to host more discriminatory competitions.
\nYesterday I was asking myself where this would go if we all accept this behaviour.
The rule to make the whole team not eligible for the prize with one member outside US can cause even more segregation issues.
\n\nI can imagine top performing teams rejecting new member purely based on his/her citizenship to avoid losing prize eligibility, or member from US not willing to join non US team. Or non US member not willing to join US team to avoid punishing his/her US friends.
\n\nWe may end up not only with the first and second class kaggle community members but promote this separation even more with the first and second class teams and fear not to touch the second class ones otherwise you'd lose your 1st class privileges.
\n\nI'd be happy if I'm wrong here.
\n\nI found working together in a team to be one of the more rewarding kaggle experience, would be great not to sacrifice it.
", "votes": 14, "replies": [ { "id": 201197, "author_name": "Mitch", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-10T17:07:49.937000", "content": "Perhaps we should consider that Kaggle might not be the altruistic platform which we thought DESERVES the participation of open-minded, forward-thinking, progressive-thinking world citizens?
\n\nIn other words, if you are hungry for Pizza, no quantity of rice noodles are going to satisfy you.
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 195124, "author_name": "317070", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T19:51:25.417000", "content": "Could the members of the Kaggle community who are no US citizens donate their prize to a US non-profit organization instead? For instance Freedom to Travel USA seems be a good cause some non-US citizens might want to donate to, as they are fighting the warrantless electronic strip searches of travellers in the USA.
", "votes": 16, "replies": [ { "id": 195131, "author_name": "Μαριος Μιχαηλιδης KazAnova", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T20:00:23.613000", "content": "I would say the opposite. People who are from US, should donate the prize to make it fair for their European, Asian, African, Australian , South American fellows that are not able to be eligible for a prize .
\n\nThat way we are all doing it for a good cause :)
", "votes": 16, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 195184, "author_name": "Serigne ", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T22:28:36.860000", "content": "", "votes": 19, "replies": [ { "id": 195196, "author_name": "Serigne ", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T23:03:09.280000", "content": "", "votes": -1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195364, "author_name": "عثمان", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T11:52:56.210000", "content": "You and I both know Trump doesn't believe in science.
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195404, "author_name": "CPMP", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T14:11:35.150000", "content": "This is not Trump, this is Bush: America Compete Act was created in 2007, and refreshed in 2010. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_COMPETES_Act
", "votes": 12, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195587, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-24T05:28:43.557000", "content": "", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 216685, "author_name": "Serigne ", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-08-27T13:18:34.590000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 391308, "author_name": "Abhishek Banerji", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-09-21T15:22:43.683000", "content": "there, I saved you
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 195754, "author_name": "rakhlin", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-24T22:00:23.530000", "content": "The competition should be closed to non-US citizens/residents.
\n\nBy letting non-residents in this competition Kaggle drove to extreme its core principle of exploiting scientific community for nothing. Kaggle commissions is comparable if not larger than prize funds. Few winners, sometimes from the 2nd and 3rd world, create state of the art solution and get paid on the scale of an average US programmer - in the best case. There are hundreds and thousands of brilliant people who waste their time for illusive idea of knowledge and ranking points. Even outsiders indirectly participate top solutions via creating pressure on the winners. Kaggle and its sponsors are so cheap that they don't consider making formal compliments to competitors in form of souvenirs (t-shirts/cups/pens) as thankful sponsors used to do.
", "votes": 10, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195403, "author_name": "CPMP", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T14:06:19.197000", "content": "Organizers and Kaggle have set this in a way that no one outside the US should participate. Saying that all members of a team must be eligible is a clear message to all of us out there.
\n\nYes, it means they won't get results as good as if the competition was open (judging on who won the last image processing competitions). But that's their choice.
\n\nI won't enter for sure as there is only downside to non US people (legal liabilities). Of course I do not see me as a potential prize winner here, but this is for the principle. And I hope all non eligible people will do the same. I was only half kidding when I said this was the way to make sure US people can win a competition. That's precisely why this restriction is there.
", "votes": 10, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195108, "author_name": "CPMP", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T19:16:02.903000", "content": "Someone is fed up to see European teams trust all #1 spots recently ;)
", "votes": 10, "replies": [ { "id": 195224, "author_name": "inversion", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T01:18:22.330000", "content": "LOL
", "votes": 2, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 744881, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-02-13T08:41:51.267000", "content": "Hundreds of comments repeating \"Well said\" and \"Thanks for sharing\" on a 3 year old post, even though AFAIK the condition of the post doesn't apply anymore!
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195160, "author_name": "bluebalam", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T21:32:34.123000", "content": "Kaggle's decision to accept such discriminatory rules for a competition is extremely disappointing!
\n\nThis is an insult to all of us, the community behind Kaggle and the most valuable asset.
\n\nKaggle: -1
", "votes": 11, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195039, "author_name": "Guillermo Barbadillo", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T17:01:17.850000", "content": "It is a pity, I hope they reconsider.
", "votes": 8, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195677, "author_name": "Cut Onion", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-24T13:50:12.217000", "content": "There are already many opinions like \"Kaggle is for learning and it is a great achievement just having such dataset in the first place\". How about making the data truly open as a gift for excluded community? Licence dataset for any use for everyone and maybe it will be fine compromise.
", "votes": 7, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195050, "author_name": "Guillermo Barbadillo", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T17:18:48.413000", "content": "I suggest to upvote this post and to downvote the welcome post as a sign of protest. If all non-american kagglers will do this it could be epic XD
", "votes": 9, "replies": [] }, { "id": 227802, "author_name": "Francis Paul Flores", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-10-05T07:07:58.380000", "content": "I agree, this competition is complete BS!
", "votes": 5, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195101, "author_name": "Vilmar", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T18:38:36.647000", "content": "This is a bit of a surprising move, and I'm a bit disheartened that such rules should exist, especially on a platform like Kaggle, where the world's best data scientists gather up to compete and share their knowledge. This is no different for me than racial, gender, or any other discrimination. What's more puzzling is that the dataset is actually open for anyone, so I definitely see no reason for national limitation whatsoever.
", "votes": 5, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195068, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T17:44:35.633000", "content": "", "votes": -2, "replies": [ { "id": 195076, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T17:59:00.413000", "content": "", "votes": 45, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195087, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T18:07:04.183000", "content": "", "votes": 26, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195102, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T18:38:44.483000", "content": "", "votes": 7, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195222, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T01:14:03.163000", "content": "", "votes": 2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195252, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T03:23:09.020000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 195051, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T17:19:04.410000", "content": "", "votes": -2, "replies": [ { "id": 195057, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T17:28:29", "content": "", "votes": 59, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195059, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T17:32:16.207000", "content": "", "votes": 33, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195060, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T17:34:05.673000", "content": "", "votes": 22, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195061, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T17:36:20.143000", "content": "", "votes": 8, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195123, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T19:50:07.687000", "content": "", "votes": 14, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195130, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T20:00:08.617000", "content": "", "votes": 9, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195459, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T16:42:40.267000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195582, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-24T04:33:54.983000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 196730, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-28T01:58:07.847000", "content": "", "votes": 3, "replies": [] }, { "id": 197046, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-28T17:17:36.603000", "content": "", "votes": 3, "replies": [ { "id": 197159, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-28T22:50:36.123000", "content": "", "votes": 7, "replies": [] }, { "id": 212867, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-08-12T23:24:05.600000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 196289, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-27T00:43:37.183000", "content": "", "votes": 4, "replies": [ { "id": 212868, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-08-12T23:24:45.257000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 195144, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T20:37:51.167000", "content": "", "votes": 3, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195653, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-24T11:24:19.337000", "content": "", "votes": 2, "replies": [ { "id": 195659, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-24T11:36:17.987000", "content": "", "votes": -1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195670, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-24T13:07:08.757000", "content": "", "votes": 6, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 228174, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-10-06T03:11:41.210000", "content": "", "votes": 3, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195112, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T19:23:41.473000", "content": "", "votes": 2, "replies": [ { "id": 195128, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T19:56:05.727000", "content": "", "votes": 4, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195129, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T19:58:05.653000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195231, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T01:46:51.443000", "content": "", "votes": 2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195301, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T07:45:02.003000", "content": "", "votes": 2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195528, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T21:29:26.610000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 195105, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T19:03:20.327000", "content": "", "votes": 3, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195914, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-25T17:51:04.923000", "content": "", "votes": 2, "replies": [ { "id": 212871, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-08-12T23:29:42.947000", "content": "", "votes": -1, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 195541, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T23:35:45.590000", "content": "", "votes": 2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195414, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T14:32:45.967000", "content": "", "votes": 3, "replies": [] }, { "id": 249200, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-11-27T23:28:28.710000", "content": "", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 227788, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-10-05T06:13:41.700000", "content": "", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195730, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-24T18:53:05.100000", "content": "", "votes": 2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 218399, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-09-04T05:28:05.047000", "content": "", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 212866, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-08-12T23:18:50.533000", "content": "", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 198665, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-03T10:02:44.173000", "content": "", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 198662, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-03T09:40:07.207000", "content": "", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195126, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T19:52:51.857000", "content": "", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195089, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-22T18:07:47.400000", "content": "", "votes": -3, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195835, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-25T08:04:09.173000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 782543, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-03-22T12:09:08.093000", "content": "", "votes": -2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195543, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T23:50:56.523000", "content": "", "votes": 2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195779, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-25T01:41:10.827000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 747436, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-02-16T12:43:11.060000", "content": "", "votes": -1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195640, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-24T09:42:47.167000", "content": "", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195597, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-24T06:47:12.403000", "content": "", "votes": -4, "replies": [ { "id": 195628, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-24T09:05:49.593000", "content": "", "votes": -1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195654, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-24T11:25:31.423000", "content": "", "votes": 1, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 195902, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-25T16:39:24.193000", "content": "", "votes": -3, "replies": [ { "id": 195997, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-26T01:49:34.250000", "content": "", "votes": 6, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 200086, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-07T04:14:14.537000", "content": "", "votes": -7, "replies": [ { "id": 200242, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-07T09:11:46.363000", "content": "", "votes": 6, "replies": [] }, { "id": 200339, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-07T15:04:15.543000", "content": "", "votes": -4, "replies": [] }, { "id": 200802, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-09T12:07:50.207000", "content": "", "votes": 11, "replies": [] }, { "id": 201014, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-10T07:33:09.150000", "content": "", "votes": 2, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 228461, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-10-06T19:03:28.717000", "content": "", "votes": -7, "replies": [ { "id": 228464, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-10-06T19:06:44.503000", "content": "", "votes": 6, "replies": [] }, { "id": 228481, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-10-06T19:53:16.180000", "content": "", "votes": 6, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 213305, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-08-14T12:20:38.170000", "content": "", "votes": -8, "replies": [ { "id": 216750, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-08-28T01:07:46.950000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 202666, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-13T02:08:48.633000", "content": "", "votes": -13, "replies": [] }, { "id": 196937, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-28T12:39:11.550000", "content": "", "votes": -1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 196210, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-26T17:06:25.447000", "content": "", "votes": -2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195851, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-25T10:27:08.797000", "content": "", "votes": -2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195491, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T18:47:03.680000", "content": "", "votes": -7, "replies": [ { "id": 195655, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-24T11:26:11.887000", "content": "", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 198788, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-03T18:12:34.057000", "content": "", "votes": 2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 198836, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-03T21:05:46.570000", "content": "", "votes": 2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 198840, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-03T21:11:47.763000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 198866, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-03T23:07:17.230000", "content": "", "votes": 2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 198907, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-04T04:14:33.587000", "content": "", "votes": 1, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 803948, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-04-11T03:38:19.190000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 756419, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-02-25T17:56:04.937000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 745179, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-02-13T15:31:28.403000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 725342, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-01-22T02:26:40.647000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 709396, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-01-03T12:59:49.033000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 697567, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-12-18T05:11:42.593000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 676357, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-19T05:36:06.097000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 656196, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-10-24T02:09:29.483000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 655959, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-10-23T18:06:32.913000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 623362, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-09-10T20:00:14.977000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 620575, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-09-07T17:35:53.887000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 600563, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-08-16T09:29:32.273000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 597404, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-08-12T09:40:41.723000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 585088, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-07-26T23:57:33.183000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 546446, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-06-06T15:38:01.373000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 534561, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-05-21T13:13:58.570000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 527654, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-05-06T03:11:32.503000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 525628, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-05-01T12:23:56.803000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 523903, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-04-27T10:43:27.820000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 517640, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-04-16T09:50:43.377000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 509363, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-04-07T17:54:55.467000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 434684, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-12-06T19:37:30.080000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 389314, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-09-18T14:27:43.483000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 374956, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-08-24T08:54:43.557000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 354370, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-07-09T11:58:38.920000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 291411, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-03-06T04:33:42.090000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 273852, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-01-25T10:03:11.243000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 266223, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-01-08T06:09:57.310000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 256620, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-12-12T12:02:17.883000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 253058, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-12-04T11:48:10.797000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 239890, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-11-04T22:29:15.253000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 225589, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-09-29T15:22:34.267000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 202351, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-12T10:36:24.443000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 199659, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-06T03:56:37.330000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 198469, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-02T14:57:44.767000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 197826, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-30T09:27:56.937000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 196166, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-26T14:04:53.150000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 196081, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-26T09:46:46.233000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 761014, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-03-02T03:08:31.667000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 751570, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-02-20T09:39:38.970000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 745683, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-02-14T04:37:38.890000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 711714, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-01-06T13:06:43.693000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 607069, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-08-24T15:03:32.690000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 511138, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-04-09T19:39:11.963000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 493877, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-03-19T07:44:16.190000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 402783, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-10-12T10:04:59.820000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 392386, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-09-23T17:17:15.573000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 366789, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-08-06T14:13:09.177000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 361810, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-07-25T05:51:30.480000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 198191, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-01T09:43:18.677000", "content": "", "votes": 9, "replies": [ { "id": 199658, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-06T03:53:09.960000", "content": "", "votes": 5, "replies": [] }, { "id": 203326, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-07-14T15:45:09.233000", "content": "", "votes": 5, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 195348, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T10:28:02.250000", "content": "", "votes": 12, "replies": [] }, { "id": 195223, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2017-06-23T01:17:24.520000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 769833, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-03-12T10:15:52.970000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 745682, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-02-14T04:36:56.337000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 712748, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-01-07T14:54:46.420000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 705511, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-12-29T01:31:18.663000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 607814, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-08-25T23:39:23.310000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 548917, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-06-10T05:17:11.700000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 510473, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-04-09T06:08:42.453000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 480689, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-02-28T14:21:06.743000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 359572, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2018-07-20T11:26:24.823000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 712980, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2020-01-07T19:40:02.253000", "content": "", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ], "raw_markdown_by_id": { "195026": "> Members of the Kaggle community who are not United States Citizens or legal permanent residents at the time of entry are allowed to participate in the Competition but are not eligible to win prizes. If a team has one or more members who are not prize eligible, then the entire team is not prize eligible.\n\nI think this is total nonsense. Are you really want to get the time of the best of the world datascientists with such rules? This is total bullshit and don't believe I see it in rules after outrage in the previous competition where Chinese people were excluded and also DSTL's discriminatory rules. \n\nGo create your own useless competition site no one will ever visit and compete with yourself if you want such rules! I think the best response from the community should be to refuse to participate at all. ", "195031": "This is really frustrating, that this shady business is becoming more and more popular in the scientific community:\n\n [Russian data scientist unable to claim £12,000 prize in Brit competition][1]\n\n\n [1]: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/05/russian_denied_dstl_data_sci_challenge_prize/", "196206": "I think the real mistake Kaggle made here was trying to have it both ways. You cannot have a competition with two classes of competitors, where some compete for money and points while others just for points. And how exactly are Kagglers supposed to confirm someone's legal residency status when forming teams?\n\nI personally think it's perfectly fine for competition sponsors that pay the bills to impose whatever restrictions they want (or in this case forced to by law), but then it has to be a closed competition where you have to prove eligibility before you can compete, and no Kaggle points should be awarded. If you want access to the entire talent pool, you have to drop the restrictions, or live with the far lower participation rate of closed competitions.", "236069": "I think Elon Musk said something that, taken slightly out of context, could contribute to this conversation. \n\n“This is not out of some desire of SpaceX to just hire people with green cards,” Musk said. “It’s because we’re not allowed to do anything else. This is not a wise policy for the US, because there are so many talented people all around the world that we would love to have work at our company. But unless they can somehow get a green card, we’re legally prevented from hiring” them. (sic) (source, below)\n\nThough I have no legal experience, I would speculate that there is much complexity surrounding the legality of paying money to foreign participants. This isn't just inclusive to this event; this is setting precedent. I mean, look how the probe is going with respect to Russian interference in 2016 election. As people are finding out that Russian politicians and citizens were even meeting with American politicians, we are stuck with a question about what motivations are, and how it affected the outcome.\n\nThe common person does not understand data science. The common person does not understand Kaggle. The common person does not understand Artificial Intelligence, and I dare speculate that the common person, might actually fears concepts such as AI or the implications of the \"Roko's Basilisk\" thought experiment. \n\nAnd mistake me not, for I do not disparage my fellow for lack of intelligence. As a wise man once said, in a popular movie:\n\n\"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow.\" (source, below)\n\nNow imagine that misled ignorance in the hands of dubious, click-bait news media. Imagine the potential for spin and ad-revenue as the common person finds out that US dollars are leaving the country, and potentially falling into the hands of one of our so-called \"political rivals\" abroad (sorry, international community; we love you, but your governments and our governments are, well, occasionally a little misguided). \n\nImagine the hypothetical \"public outcry\" if US citizens were to find out that our Department of Homeland Security paid a group of Russian hackers a million dollars to optimize our search algorithms for airport scanners (insert scary-sounding technical explanation, here). The common person doesn't care that we are more safe. They only see, \"words, words, words, Department of Homeland Security, words, words, Russian Hackers, words, paid a million bucks, words, words, words\" and they don't like that because a million dollars is a lot of money (to them) and the Russian Hackers are \"the bad guy\".\n\nIt's not about the ends justifies the means. It's about \"image\", and sadly, the people in power care more about \"image\" than results. In short, when it comes to scientific advancement in humanity: same shit, different day.\n\nSources: \nhttps://qz.com/794101/elon-musk-explains-why-he-doesnt-hire-much-foreign-talent-at-spacex/\nhttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119654/quotes", "195041": "That is a shame, that Google, who now owns the Kaggle agreed to such terms. It means they got theirs cut for organizing this competition without any consideration of how frustrating and damaging to the community such discrimination could be. One of the most profitable companies in the world buying the Kaggle and willing to ruin reputation that was built for years as place where anybody could take part and compete based on their merits not origin. And for what? For several millions $ (at best)? \n\nI don't understand what reaction are you expecting. \"We don't have anything to do with that, there are some arbitrary rules of DHS and we couldn't resist to comply with them\". No. You shouldn't trade respect and trust from WORLDWIDE AND INTERNATIONAL community to hosts competition with such rules. Just don't. \n\nIt is hard to overstate how frustrated and enraged I am and. surely, many others. Just... Doh, I don't have any more non-obscene words for it.", "195038": "I guess only non-US citizens can deeply understand how frustrating it is to go through the US airport security. However, we don't have the motivation to solve this problem here.", "195329": "What's more funny is they decided to host the competition on a website started by an Australian! ", "196096": "Simply do not enter into this competition even if you are eligible. This kind of competitions should not be allowed on Kaggle. We are here to build a data science community regardless the race and nationality. I believe this should not be overlooked by no means.", "195526": "This is rather sad. The TSA has had a terrible reputation for precisely the problems mentioned in this competition overview's description. When I saw this competition I thought that it's really cool as it kind of gives us a sense that the TSA cares about the people on the wrong end of these problems, that they acknowledge them and are trying hard to improve. Unfortunately barring non-US citizens or permanent residents from winning the prize is a pretty terrible thing to do, mostly because much of the Kaggle community is indeed international, and it's this international community which made Kaggle as popular as its become through acts of inclusiveness by sharing skills and knowledge with the world. The hurdle of citizenship status and H1B visas is already one of the biggest reasons keeping a large portion of tech talent from working in the US, and now it has been brought onto Kaggle. I think such a non-inclusive competition should be set up as either a private competition, or something like one of those \"master-only\" ones. Having 5000+ teams competing is good for marketing, which is good for everybody, but exploiting the community to do so with such exclusionary prize eligibility is wrong. \n\nIf America really wants to compete, then perhaps the $1.5 million would be better spent on renovating a run-down school in the inner cities. ", "195045": "I support this. Science shouldn't be limited by countries.", "196866": "After seeing this, I wish there was a button to downvote competitions!!!", "195092": "I will not be surprised to see new competitions with limitations on ethnicity, gender, religion or sexuality. \nShame on you, Kaggle. This insincerity is totally insulting.", "195729": "Can't believe a Kaggle competiton has such a restriction. How did Kaggle allowed to host such a competition?\nThis is despicable. Please change the rules or remove this competition from the web site. ", "195070": "Welcome to the world of Kaggle Discrimination !\n", "195109": "I don't blame the DOH for having to put rules like this on its competition, but I do blame Kaggle for accepting to host it for them under these circumstances. Way to piss off a big part of your community.", "207928": "Full disclosure: I am a US citizen and I dont intend to boycott. \n\nBut the restriction is ill advised. US data scientists just aren't guaranteed to dominate in these competitions - they are often won by citizens of other countries. So I recommend that everyone enter, even if you cant win a prize. But dont submit your code - you will still be seen on the leaderboard. When the organizers see the high ranks dominated by foreigners, they will have a quandary - there are better detection algorithms out there and we are not using them! And foreigners understand our data better than we do - cant they use that knowledge to foil the screening? I forsee impassioned speeches in the senate and an executive order to pay off the real winners.\n\n", "195238": "This is really sad. \nThis information should be in the first page, not hidden inside the hidden rules tab. \nI vote for non-us citizens to not participate. Count on me. ", "195797": "The rule to make the whole team not eligible for the prize with one member outside US can cause even more segregation issues.\n\nI can imagine top performing teams rejecting new member purely based on his/her citizenship to avoid losing prize eligibility, or member from US not willing to join non US team. Or non US member not willing to join US team to avoid punishing his/her US friends.\n\nWe may end up not only with the first and second class kaggle community members but promote this separation even more with the first and second class teams and fear not to touch the second class ones otherwise you'd lose your 1st class privileges.\n\nI'd be happy if I'm wrong here.\n\nI found working together in a team to be one of the more rewarding kaggle experience, would be great not to sacrifice it.", "195124": "Could the members of the Kaggle community who are no US citizens donate their prize to a US non-profit organization instead? For instance [*Freedom to Travel USA*][1] seems be a good cause some non-US citizens might want to donate to, as they are fighting the warrantless electronic strip searches of travellers in the USA.\n\n [1]: http://fttusa.org/", "195184": " ", "195754": "The competition should be closed to non-US citizens/residents.\n\nBy letting non-residents in this competition Kaggle drove to extreme its core principle of exploiting scientific community for nothing. Kaggle commissions is comparable if not larger than prize funds. Few winners, sometimes from the 2nd and 3rd world, create state of the art solution and get paid on the scale of an average US programmer - in the best case. There are hundreds and thousands of brilliant people who waste their time for illusive idea of knowledge and ranking points. Even outsiders indirectly participate top solutions via creating pressure on the winners. Kaggle and its sponsors are so cheap that they don't consider making formal compliments to competitors in form of souvenirs (t-shirts/cups/pens) as thankful sponsors used to do.", "195403": "Organizers and Kaggle have set this in a way that no one outside the US should participate. Saying that all members of a team must be eligible is a clear message to all of us out there. \n\nYes, it means they won't get results as good as if the competition was open (judging on who won the last image processing competitions). But that's their choice.\n\nI won't enter for sure as there is only downside to non US people (legal liabilities). Of course I do not see me as a potential prize winner here, but this is for the principle. And I hope all non eligible people will do the same. I was only half kidding when I said this was the way to make sure US people can win a competition. That's precisely why this restriction is there.", "195108": "Someone is fed up to see European teams trust all #1 spots recently ;)", "744881": "Hundreds of comments repeating \"Well said\" and \"Thanks for sharing\" on a 3 year old post, even though AFAIK the condition of the post doesn't apply anymore!", "195160": "Kaggle's decision to accept such discriminatory rules for a competition is extremely disappointing!\n\nThis is an insult to all of us, the community behind Kaggle and the most valuable asset.\n\nKaggle: -1", "195039": "It is a pity, I hope they reconsider.", "195677": "There are already many opinions like \"Kaggle is for learning and it is a great achievement just having such dataset in the first place\". How about making the data truly open as a gift for excluded community? Licence dataset for any use for everyone and maybe it will be fine compromise. ", "195050": "I suggest to upvote this post and to downvote the welcome post as a sign of protest. If all non-american kagglers will do this it could be epic XD", "227802": "I agree, this competition is complete BS!", "195101": "This is a bit of a surprising move, and I'm a bit disheartened that such rules should exist, especially on a platform like Kaggle, where the world's best data scientists gather up to compete and share their knowledge. This is no different for me than racial, gender, or any other discrimination. What's more puzzling is that the dataset is actually open for anyone, so I definitely see no reason for national limitation whatsoever.", "195068": "Totally agree with frustrations expressed here. Neither Kaggle, DHS nor the community wants geo restrictions.\n\nIn this case it's a legal restriction. DHS worked hard to allow any international participation (albeit without prize money).\n\nFrom Kaggle's perspective, we prefer to host a competition with a geo restriction and make the opportunity available to the community than not host. We think this is a better (albeit imperfect) outcome.", "195051": "I'm relatively new to the Kaggle community and I'm not sure I understand this complaint entirely. \n\nIt is immediately evident why it would be disappointing to be excluded from the available prizes, but I fail to see the alternative or the solution here. DHS has undertaken the effort to design a competition, but cannot (by law or policy) reward some portion (plurality, majority, or otherwise) of the Kaggle community.\n\nWould you rather Kaggle reject the competition and therein \"punish\" its American users? I find it frustrating to read posts complaining but not offering a solution, but perhaps I am missing the point here. I suppose my question, once more, is: **what would you have Kaggle do?**", "196730": "It is nonsense. But the best way to stick it to them is to send me your best models and I will spend the prize money on international vacationing or buying an exotic foreign car to pollute their atmosphere and prevent money from going to the air travel system or domestic economy. ;)", "197046": "I do think Kaggle should make a stand against such discrimination. United States corporations are globalists but the govt has their heads buried in the ground. This is the same agency that rejected the creator of curl from onboarding the flight. If Kaggle has any balls it should just say no to just discrimination.\n\nWhat next, \"let's make a terrorist detection competition where muslims are not allowed to participate\". \"A crime classifier where black people are not allowed to participate\". Where does the bar stop?\n\nKaggle, you need to make stand for what you believe in. It's moments like this where you lead by action. ", "196289": "This competition is sponsored by the US department of homeland security. I'm not 100% sure but I think they are required by law to only provide money to US citizens, permanent residents, and US companies.", "195144": "If the rules won't be changed, I hope this competition will be the most ignored by Kaggle community competition ever. ", "195653": "Actual discrimination: Philando Castille's murder\nNot actual discrimination: Kaggle following federal law\n\nActual discrimination: Muslim ban\nNot actual discrimination: Kaggle following federal law", "228174": "*\"The Competition is open to ... validly formed legal U.S. entities whose primary place of business is in the U.S. that have not declared or been declared in bankruptcy.\"* seems to imply that: Persons intending to win, but not eligible to win individually, may work on this competition through an institution/employer that is eligible to win.\n*Even though I am eligible to win,* I opine that DHS should have made this competition winnable by non-USA citizens or hosted this competition through their own website.
", "195112": "Do Ranking points count though for non US? Maybe if you give double ranking points for people not able to claim the prize?", "195105": "I guess Kaggle need to recruit new strategic decision makers.", "195914": "Organizers cannot pay to non-US winners due to US -law restrictions, I understand this. But organizers took another important right - possibility to choose how to spend the prize. if non-US got the prize, he should be able to say: \"OK, I cannot receive the money, but could you please transfer to the charity fund or to the winner or to the 4th place or ...", "195541": "I might be wrong, but the winning model and algorithm is a reward in itself if you are into airport security that is. Your next step would be setting up a company if you do not already and peddling the software to the interested buyers. I have a nagging suspicion that TSA would have to pay much more than 1 million for the delivery. \n", "195414": "Boycott, that's all. ", "249200": "If the prize wasn't that huge, or if there was no prize at all, this discussion wouldn't have happened at all. Moaning and money always go hand in hand, yet aren't data scientists the most wanted and most paid professionals? There's so much opportunities out there, go catch them and try to make the world a better place with the skills you own. Don't know where to start? https://www.drivendata.org/ just an example, tho most of you will already know about that", "227788": "Bro, this guys just reduce the quality of the future solution. Their problem. :)). Take it like that. As for money? Well, there's bunch other competitions. ", "195730": "There is so much wrong with this competition, even without this discrimination thing.\n\n\"Please help us make better ways to build our surveillance state\".\n\n... no thanks", "218399": "Shame this still got no clarification from host, at all.", "212866": "It's highly likely that the particular funding TSA had available to it to pay the winners of this competition *can't* be paid to non-citizens for legal reasons. Government budgeting is not about results, efficiency, or return on investment. It is an exercise in control. This isn't just my opinion, it's an established fact that is actually taught as such in government budget courses. I doubt TSA *can* give this money to non-citizens. It's probably prohibited in the relevant budget guidance to that agency.\n\nThere is no question that it is unfair in a general sense to deprive non-U.S. citizens of the fruits of their labors if they write the winning solution to this competition. But it is also wholly irrelevant if the competition sponsor has no control over the process. \n\nAs someone mentioned further down this thread, a solution might be to team up with a U.S. citizen who was willing to honorably split the money post-victory. This requires a certain level of trust, probably in someone you've never met before, but it is a workable solution. \n\nMore importantly, @pete is right to point out that showing the value of this sort of competition might pry more liberal funding from the Federal government in the future for this sort of thing. And that would be a win for the entire data science, and even the entire scientific, community writ large. Government is hardly a progressive institution and I'm sure there is a high level career civil servant somewhere in TSA who has put his neck on the line to show that data science competitions deserve seven figure expenditures because they can make meaningful contributions to national security and the well-being of all Americans. That was an act of courage, whether it is immediately obvious or not, and we should applaud it. \n\nI say all of this as a newcomer to data science who does not yet possess the skills to even attempt competing in this particular competition. I still have a lot to learn about this field. But I am also a career Soldier and civil servant and I can tell you unreservedly from that perspective that this criticism, though true, should deter noone from competing. If anything, those with the skills to do so *must* compete to pry loose the Federal funding in the future that makes such mammoth cash prizes and datasets possible. After all, who collects more comprehensive data than the Federal government? Noone. Even the Googles and Amazons of the world only peer into the lives of those who use the Internet. The government pries much deeper than that. This competition is proof of that in its own right. In the interests of the data science field itself, then, it is incumbent upon everyone with the requisite ability to show what can be done in this competition. \n\nJust my two cents. ", "198665": "Most people on this website accept to give their time to solve difficult problems because they value the feedback of the community, money is certainly not their main concern. So if you divide the community, you hurt the very reason people enjoy working with Kaggle. Because we are scientists doesn't mean we don't have ethics, it is quite the opposite actually. ", "198662": "I think we are here because kaggle is a free commuity with teconology and discussion, we all grow up with it. If oneday, some rude rules such as this one make this commuity hurt by political shit, it is our loss.", "195126": "I think for those who can win the prize, rank points <<<<<<< prize. Too sad ;(\n", "195089": "nothing new, just typical american racism... Trump's people", "195835": "A disgrace to the scientific community. This is the reason why Geoff Hinton left US. ", "782543": "Great work!", "195543": "I guess most of top 100 users are excluded....\nDHS's loss, waste of tax payers' money again.", "195779": "where are going with discrimination rules like this? I can't believe this is happening in a scientific community", "747436": "Great analysis!", "195640": "\"Never do anything against conscience even if the state demands it.\" --Einstein", "195597": "The flip side of this coin is: because of the smaller participation, it's easier to win ranking points if you don't really care about the prize money.", "195902": "I think this is one of the Trump (side) effect !\n", "200086": "If you have ever done business with the USA government as a non-us entity than you would know that the restrictions from a legal view point are longer printed pages than the images in the 3+TB data set. Ok so, I am stretching it a little, but not that much. So the prize restriction makes perfect sense to me. \n\nThe legal issues involved with just the device itself has/will keep many lawyers buying new cars as a result of 4th amendment.\n\nAdditionally, from my view, my taxes paying for this - I don't want to share :)", "228461": "The US has very clear laws that require these rules. Don't like our laws? Too bad.", "213305": "Don't like the rules don't compete. Injustice averted. Perhaps wherever your from has a similar contest that Americans are allowed to participate and win in? Unlikely.", "202666": "I'm American. Put me on your team. If you win I'll transfer the money evenly among the members(excluding me) - US Taxes and a 15% service fee.", "196937": "#TeamWinning", "196210": "I think it is because of law. BUT kaggle should not make this rule hidden.", "195851": "I presume the rule has something to do with maintaining a facade of American exceptionalism.", "195491": "кто не с нами то против нас.", "803948": "@ceperaang Agree with you!!", "756419": "Well said...", "745179": "Very well said\n", "725342": "So this was posted 3 years ago....have things changed now?", "709396": "Well said\n", "697567": "comment", "676357": "This trend is scary", "656196": "hm", "655959": "Well said.", "623362": "Is it your opinion or Elon Musk's opinion?", "620575": "Well said", "600563": "Totally agree!!!", "597404": "agreed!", "585088": "good job!", "546446": "Politics should never go beyond academy! ", "534561": "interesting", "527654": "gj", "525628": "wonderful", "523903": "Good point.", "517640": "well said ", "509363": "Nice!", "434684": "sad :(", "389314": "Rules .. rules...", "374956": "Great! I like it!", "354370": "It's really annoying!", "291411": "#Support", "273852": "Oooh this looks like a contraversy :(", "266223": "This is really frustrating", "256620": "Maybe Bitcoin or another cryptocurrency could solve these type of issues. It also makes sense that Kaggle is avoiding the legal overhead of managing payments overseas so they can focus on the platform.", "253058": "This is a point.", "239890": "This is my first comment! ", "225589": "I don't think the payment issue can justify this sort of discrimination.", "202351": "Why would anyone want to help TSA ?\nRemember its Toilet Safety Administration !", "199659": "", "198469": "I think so too. I strongly support you.", "197826": "Strong language but I tend to agree.", "196166": "totally agree! ", "196081": "Boycot", "761014": "", "751570": "", "745683": "", "711714": "", "607069": "", "511138": "", "493877": "", "402783": "", "392386": "", "366789": "", "361810": "", "198191": "", "195348": "", "195223": "", "769833": "Very insightful, thank you!", "745682": "thank you for your advice ", "712748": "Thanks for sharing man...", "705511": "Thanks", "607814": "Thank you for sharing", "548917": "Thank you for sharing : ))", "510473": "Thanks for sharing. ", "480689": "Very thoughtful. Thanks.", "359572": "Thank you !", "712980": "Thanks for this nice work" } }