![\"\"](\"https://www.googleapis.com/download/storage/v1/b/kaggle-forum-message-attachments/o/inbox%2F443651%2Fdfa98da1a88b582b382c3576388fb06b%2FScreenshot%20from%202023-06-16%2016-28-34.png?generation=1686925740230000&alt=media\")
This post is mainly directed to:
\n• Kagglers
\n• Kaggle Staff
I would like to share an alarming situation in which my team (@yamsam, @remekkinas, and @vostankovich) and specifically me found ourselves after this exciting IMC23 competition finished:
\nOur team (“Current | Resistance | Voltage”) took the 2nd place in this Image Matching Challenge 2023, and we were very pleased of this high result and delighted that our team got a talk invitation to the CVPR2023 Workshop.
\nDmytro @oldufo (one of the IMC23 competition hosts) responded later:
\n\n\nGiven the Russian war in in Ukraine, as Ukrainian myself whos family is suffered from the war, I oppose the presence at the workshop of someone currently employed by the Russian government (Russian Academy of Sciences).
\n
Dmytro took this decision to promote banning me on his own without proof or fact checking, not even contacting me for verification. Needless to say this is a completely false, I feel am facing discrimination only due to my national origin.
\nSome key background points:
\n• Among the all team members, only I was singled out to be banned from participation in CVPR 2023 Workshop.
\n• Dmytro does not communicate well with the team members, misleads the team leader (me) and other members of our team, regarding the participation in CVPR 2023 Workshop. He does not respond to emails, but instead talks with only one member of our team and uses him as a “man in the middle”.
\n• I feel discriminated and intimidated by the host. I think this is not aligned with the rules Kaggle and CVPR 2023 rules and guidelines, had I have been warned in the beginning of this competition that Kagglers of Russian origin cannot attend CVPR 2023 Workshop perhaps I would have bypassed such a great competition or call for attention this personal “rule”.
The official Kaggle community guidelines are published here:
\nA few quotes from Kaggle community guidelines:
\n“If you see something that you feel violates these guidelines please bring it to our attention using the flag option on messages and topics. We take your reports very seriously.”
“We strive to be a community that welcomes and supports people of all backgrounds and identities. This includes, but is not limited to, members of any race, ethnicity, culture, national origin, color, immigration status, social and economic class, educational level, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity and expression, age, size, family status, political belief, religion, and mental and physical ability.”
\nI believe this post will help other Kagglers of different background/identities to avoid similar situations in future. I hope Kaggle Staff will take a look at this situation carefully. In my opinion, Kaggle community should grow based on your skills/knowledge, not just personal feelings and addictions.
\n@sohier @eduardtrulls @ashleychow @fabiobellavia
\n\nP.S. Kagglers, please, do not talk about politics in this post and be respectful. Please, upvote this discussion if you want to provide support.
", "messages": [ { "id": 2305033, "postDate": "2023-06-16T11:52:20.107Z", "content": "Actually, quite the opposite is true. Let’s go.
\nFirst, we didn’t “uninvite” or “banned” anyone. Nobody has written Igor or anyone else from his team that they were uninvited, or intended to do so.
\nIt is that I - personally - hoping for the human understanding - politely asked to change the speaker for the team trying to avoid phycological damage. The point is that I am personally uncomfortable to share the scene with a person, who is very likely works are Russian government institution. We didn’t say or imply that the team or their members would be “banned” from the workshop.
\nNow, what exactly I has written to Remek, not just the small quite Igor shared? Here is my full message.
\nIt is me, who is considering (and actually decided) to leave the workshop. Feel the difference.
Hi Remek,
\nI haven’t yet answered Igor yet, and here is why. Given the Russian war in Ukraine, as Ukrainian myself who’s family is suffered from the war, I oppose the presence at the workshop of someone currently employed by the Russian government ( Russian Academy of Sciences). If that would happen I would probably resign from the orgs.
\nWith all due respect to your sportsmanship and respect for your team members, I am for your team presenting the solution, but I would like to ask you someone else representing your team.
\nI hope you would understand me.
Best, Dmytro.
\nI have all reasons to believe that Igor works for Russian Academy of Sciences:
\nThis part of my original answer about Igor personal details deleted, as requested by Kaggle Team. However, anyone with internet access can find it easily online.
\nI don’t see why I should believe his words here more, than official institution website, as well has his own words in LinkedIn or website, or CV.
\nPart of my family had to flee from Russian army during the invasion to Ukraine. That is not politics.
\nI stand by my words and would not share the scene with person, who, in addition to manipulated information, now accuses me in racism.
I agree that noone should be discriminated against based on their country of birth. However, if someone actively contributes to a society that only causes harm, such as Russia today, then I completely understand @oldufo his reasoning.
\nYou state that the accusations that you are associated with the Russian government are false. But your personal website and CV state that you are affiliated with St. Petersburg Federal Research Center of the Russian Academy of Sciences. This clearly contradicts… Could you please clarify? Are you or are you not affiliated with SPC RAS?
\nEDIT: Some extra information, your last edit of the website was in December 2022, which is not too long ago. Did you leave SPC RAS since then?
\n
We talk only about rules, and official sanctions, but let's also apply common sense and look at things differently.
\nWhen you compare the situation of @igorlashkov and @oldufo we see two kinds of pain. The pain of one is co from the fact that you were asked not to present at a conference, which is sad and I feel sorry for you. The pain of the other pain is coming from the fact that your home country Ukraine is being invaded and destroyed by Russia, and that Ukrainians are killed in an open invasion.
\nI don't see anywhere in your statement the support for Ukrainian victims or a clear statement that you condemn the invasion. You just write about \"politics\". Politics is a very flexible term, and Relativism is a very dangerous tool. It is exactly this type of attitude that dictators are happy about - it means the propaganda has done its job well.
\nSo when @oldufo kindly asks you to not present at a conference, I would accept, and not make a mess about it (just coming from the human side of things).
", "rawMarkdown": "We talk only about rules, and official sanctions, but let's also apply common sense and look at things differently. \n\nWhen you compare the situation of @igorlashkov and @oldufo we see two kinds of pain. The pain of one is co from the fact that you were asked not to present at a conference, which is sad and I feel sorry for you. The pain of the other pain is coming from the fact that your home country Ukraine is being invaded and destroyed by Russia, and that Ukrainians are killed in an open invasion.\n\nI don't see anywhere in your statement the support for Ukrainian victims or a clear statement that you condemn the invasion. You just write about \"politics\". Politics is a very flexible term, and Relativism is a very dangerous tool. It is exactly this type of attitude that dictators are happy about - it means the propaganda has done its job well.\n\nSo when @oldufo kindly asks you to not present at a conference, I would accept, and not make a mess about it (just coming from the human side of things).", "votes": 21 }, { "id": 2305659, "postDate": "2023-06-16T20:24:31.090Z", "content": "Hey all,
\nI’d like to first remind everyone of Kaggle’s Community Guidelines, specifically wanting to highlight the following:
\nKaggle has always been a place where people from a variety of backgrounds, nationalities, viewpoints and experiences can openly discuss their work. The focus has always been the work itself, not the individual. Our expectations for conduct on the site reflect this, and we do not tolerate violations of these guidelines.
\nSince the beginning of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Kaggle has always committed to complying with all sanctions requirements and we continue to monitor the latest guidance. All winners and prize recipients (across the world, not just associated with Russia) are subject to official sanctions screening prior to receiving funds- this policy has been in place for many years.
\nKaggle is honored to be a place where cutting-edge research competitions are hosted, and particularly proud when Kagglers are asked to attend prestigious conferences and present their work alongside competition hosts. Kaggle is not directly involved in conference organization or selection to present, but we work with hosts to ensure that undue conditions are not placed on Kagglers to participate in or win a competition.
\nWe’ve reached out to the host of the competition and can confirm that the second place team’s invitation to speak at the CVPR workshop has never been revoked, nor have the winners been banned from attending. One of the hosts expressed his discomfort and made a non-binding request that he felt was a flexible compromise: Having a different member of the team represent them at the conference. However it should be noted that if the second place team chooses to not honor the request, the host may remove himself- the winner's invitation is not conditional to this request.
\nWe will be reaching out directly to both the tagged host and the second place team to ensure conduct here was and remains within our guidelines. We will continue to leave this thread open in the spirit of open, civil discourse, but note that we reserve the right to lock the thread, and even issue account suspensions or bans should we deem that conversation has gone off course. Keep it professional, don’t make it personal. (read: discontinue any investigations into individual work history).
\nBest,
\nAddison
", "rawMarkdown": "Hey all,\n\nI’d like to first remind everyone of Kaggle’s [Community Guidelines](https://www.kaggle.com/community-guidelines), specifically wanting to highlight the following:\n1. Discuss and respect ideas. Don’t make it personal.\n2. Harassment and threats are unacceptable.\n3. Bigotry is not allowed.\n4. Keep it professional.\n\nKaggle has always been a place where people from a variety of backgrounds, nationalities, viewpoints and experiences can openly discuss their work. The focus has always been the work itself, not the individual. Our expectations for conduct on the site reflect this, and we do not tolerate violations of these guidelines.\n\nSince the beginning of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Kaggle has always committed to complying with all sanctions requirements and we continue to monitor the latest guidance. All winners and prize recipients (across the world, not just associated with Russia) are subject to official sanctions screening prior to receiving funds- this policy has been in place for many years.\n\nKaggle is honored to be a place where cutting-edge research competitions are hosted, and particularly proud when Kagglers are asked to attend prestigious conferences and present their work alongside competition hosts. Kaggle is not directly involved in conference organization or selection to present, but we work with hosts to ensure that undue conditions are not placed on Kagglers to participate in or win a competition.\n\nWe’ve reached out to the host of the competition and can confirm that the second place team’s invitation to speak at the CVPR workshop has never been revoked, nor have the winners been banned from attending. One of the hosts expressed his discomfort and made a non-binding request that he felt was a flexible compromise: Having a different member of the team represent them at the conference. However it should be noted that if the second place team chooses to not honor the request, the host may remove himself- the winner's invitation is not conditional to this request.\n\nWe will be reaching out directly to both the tagged host and the second place team to ensure conduct here was and remains within our guidelines. We will continue to leave this thread open in the spirit of open, civil discourse, but note that we reserve the right to lock the thread, and even issue account suspensions or bans should we deem that conversation has gone off course. Keep it professional, don’t make it personal. (read: discontinue any investigations into individual work history).\n\nBest,\n\nAddison", "votes": 20, "replies": [ { "id": 2305702, "postDate": "2023-06-16T21:21:50.100Z", "content": "Thank you for the investigation, and in particularly for clear understanding and summarizing the situation:
\n\n\nWe’ve reached out to the host of the competition and can confirm that the second place team’s invitation to speak at the CVPR workshop has never been revoked, nor have the winners been banned from attending. One of the hosts expressed his discomfort and made a non-binding request that he felt was a flexible compromise: Having a different member of the team represent them at the conference. However it should be noted that if the second place team chooses to not honor the request, the host may remove himself- the winner's invitation is not conditional to this request.
\n
Overall this was a double painful experience for me, given the work I spent on competition and ensure its fairness. I would like to thank you for clearing me from racism accusations.
", "rawMarkdown": "Thank you for the investigation, and in particularly for clear understanding and summarizing the situation:\n\n>We’ve reached out to the host of the competition and can confirm that the second place team’s invitation to speak at the CVPR workshop has never been revoked, nor have the winners been banned from attending. One of the hosts expressed his discomfort and made a non-binding request that he felt was a flexible compromise: Having a different member of the team represent them at the conference. However it should be noted that if the second place team chooses to not honor the request, the host may remove himself- the winner's invitation is not conditional to this request.\n\nOverall this was a double painful experience for me, given the work I spent on competition and ensure its fairness. I would like to thank you for clearing me from racism accusations. ", "votes": 16 }, { "id": 2305865, "postDate": "2023-06-17T00:49:21.180Z", "content": "Hello, Addison,
\nСould you explain or provide link to the official Kaggle statement as american company regarding cooperation with russian scientists?
\nSince the active user of your platform received a grant to work at the russian Academy of Sciences from russian Science Foundation, I wondering if Kaggle has any objections?
\n Grant, recieved by russian scientist, has such official requirements upon submission:
\n start quote\" … in the priority area of activity of the Russian Science Foundation \"Conducting fundamental scientific research and search research according to instructions of the President of the Russian Federation… \" end quote.
\nI can provide you detailed steps to get this public documents from https://rscf.ru/contests/ so that you can see for yourself the presence of such wording in the grant requirements.
\nI ask to concider case with active grant, recieved by russian scientist, from fund that recieve instructions from vladimir putin not like personal but professional case.
Best,
\nIryna
@addisonhoward \"Since the beginning of the Russia/Ukraine conflict\"? A war. It is a full scale war. In the center of Europe. Started by Russia. I'm not sure why you calling it a conflict, but that's huge understatement.
\nLet me show you a picture. This is Odesa, June 15 2023, the city where I was born and where I live. Russian rocket hit a mall just two kilometers from where I live. Just a tiny offset on it's route and I would not be writing this post. Every day hundreds of Kagglers from Ukraine are it risk of being killed. We do not attend CVPR, we fight for our lives. But somehow it is russians who are playing victims here.
\n![\"\"](\"https://www.googleapis.com/download/storage/v1/b/kaggle-forum-message-attachments/o/inbox%2F1504864%2F0df590dbc126e3bcfd67839a03a102c6%2Fpicturepicture_16867381409222149422681_55095.jpg?generation=1687019740122742&alt=media\")
I need some time to read this thread, but wanted to confirm immediately that I will review this. I want to thank everyone for remaining professional while discussing a very difficult situation.
", "rawMarkdown": "I need some time to read this thread, but wanted to confirm immediately that I will review this. I want to thank everyone for remaining professional while discussing a very difficult situation.", "votes": 16 }, { "id": 2306452, "postDate": "2023-06-17T10:04:41.660Z", "content": "To me, this post looks like an attempt at manipulation. I have not seen anywhere that the host had at least some pretensions to your ethnicity or to your country of origin. The facts that caused the rejection of the host are your cooperation with Russian government organisations (RAS) and receiving a grant from the Russian state. You have confirmed these facts. The host could make exactly the same claims against a Pole/Chinese/Nigerian who cooperates with the Russian state. Therefore, trying to present it as racism looks clumsy.
\nI can look at this situation from a close perspective, because my country of origin is Belarus, which is a co-aggressor in this barbaric war (it's war, not politics). However, I can’t even imagine that I could now cooperate with any Belarusian state organisations and, moreover, receive money from the Belarusian state.
", "rawMarkdown": "To me, this post looks like an attempt at manipulation. I have not seen anywhere that the host had at least some pretensions to your ethnicity or to your country of origin. The facts that caused the rejection of the host are your cooperation with Russian government organisations (RAS) and receiving a grant from the Russian state. You have confirmed these facts. The host could make exactly the same claims against a Pole/Chinese/Nigerian who cooperates with the Russian state. Therefore, trying to present it as racism looks clumsy.\n\nI can look at this situation from a close perspective, because my country of origin is Belarus, which is a co-aggressor in this barbaric war (it's war, not politics). However, I can’t even imagine that I could now cooperate with any Belarusian state organisations and, moreover, receive money from the Belarusian state.", "votes": 20 }, { "id": 2305223, "postDate": "2023-06-16T14:15:42.813Z", "content": "To tell the truth, I don't quite understand why anyone associated with the Russian government is allowed to participate in Kaggle competitions at all.
", "rawMarkdown": "To tell the truth, I don't quite understand why anyone associated with the Russian government is allowed to participate in Kaggle competitions at all. ", "votes": 17 }, { "id": 2306675, "postDate": "2023-06-17T13:21:59.967Z", "content": "It’s not politics, it’s not conflict, it’s war. War that was started by russia. Let’s not forget this simple fact.
\nIt’s very concerning and disappointing that Kaggle organisers are leaving to the participant ability to accuse people, like nothing happened, demand to remove public data, though it was the participant’s choice to go public, it’s the participant who made very serious, false, untrue accusations of the organizer and there were even no apologies for such outrageous behaviour.
", "rawMarkdown": "It’s not politics, it’s not conflict, it’s war. War that was started by russia. Let’s not forget this simple fact. \n\nIt’s very concerning and disappointing that Kaggle organisers are leaving to the participant ability to accuse people, like nothing happened, demand to remove public data, though it was the participant’s choice to go public, it’s the participant who made very serious, false, untrue accusations of the organizer and there were even no apologies for such outrageous behaviour. ", "votes": 15, "replies": [ { "id": 2306693, "postDate": "2023-06-17T13:45:34.763Z", "content": "The topic of a discussion is an open question to all of the community. And the author expressed his feelings. He didn't accuse anybody. Just read the messages again and tell me where is the accusation? Quotes: \"I feel am facing discrimination\" and \"I feel discriminated and intimidated by the host\".
\nAuthor's message is also devoted to unprofessional behavior of the host. Now let me speak from myself, not about Igor's words. I worked for 3 months as hard and as much as I could. The host had absolutely zero communication with team leader and with me. We had absolutely zero info about the workshop. If you are host of such a great competition you have to be professional and do your job correctly. If you invite some team you have to communicate with team leader and give all the details. It's first time I face such a big conference/workshop having such a poor/zero communication of one responsible host with the top teams. It's not okay to ignore people via email/twitter/etc. if the person is a team leader of the top2 team that is willing to be on workshop in a few days. I hope other invited teams could manage to communicate with the host and not being ignored.
\"Dmytro took this decision to promote banning me on his own\" - it sounds like accusation, no?
\nAnd if it's just \"feelings\", then why you involve Kaggle organizers? To carefully validate your \"feelings\"?)))
To pay attention on a subject
", "rawMarkdown": "To pay attention on a subject", "votes": -6 }, { "id": 2306779, "postDate": "2023-06-17T15:09:02.307Z", "content": "Exactly this is what concerning, that falsely accusing organizer is the way to pay attention to enough sensitive subject by itself, without even simple apologies for such behavior.
", "rawMarkdown": "Exactly this is what concerning, that **falsely accusing organizer** is the **way to pay attention** to enough sensitive subject by itself, without even simple apologies for such behavior. ", "votes": 3 }, { "id": 2306788, "postDate": "2023-06-17T15:19:45.273Z", "content": "If we call happening here as accusation, then it was in both ways. Nevertheless the host seems to be your friend or at least familiar person, there is some bias on your side I suppose, you are judging only from one point of view. As I said previously, being quite a responsible person, I suffered from that absence of communication with host as well. Nobody is perfect, but we have to be professional in such place as Kaggle or field of science. I wish I had that big number of messages between our team and the host regarding workshop details actually =) Let's end the thread here, peace.
", "rawMarkdown": "If we call happening here as accusation, then it was in both ways. Nevertheless the host seems to be your friend or at least familiar person, there is some bias on your side I suppose, you are judging only from one point of view. As I said previously, being quite a responsible person, I suffered from that absence of communication with host as well. Nobody is perfect, but we have to be professional in such place as Kaggle or field of science. I wish I had that big number of messages between our team and the host regarding workshop details actually =) Let's end the thread here, peace.", "votes": -7 }, { "id": 2306810, "postDate": "2023-06-17T15:42:15.877Z", "content": "You are floating from the topic we are all discussing here to another one about answering e-mails (there were other organisers I guess you could write to if that was an issue), but that’s not the topic of the discussion. The issue here: public accusations in discrimination, racism, promoting banning, all this without facts. If you were accused in something similar in such a public way, wouldn’t you want to at least to receive apologies from a person who falsely accused you?
\nThat’s a real issue.
And since when \"russian\" is a race?
", "rawMarkdown": "And since when \"russian\" is a race?", "votes": 12, "replies": [ { "id": 2305081, "postDate": "2023-06-16T12:31:05.113Z", "content": "According to Google’s English dictionary provided by Oxford Languages racism is actually not limited to race only, but about ethnicity as well. Quote \"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized\".
", "rawMarkdown": "According to Google’s English dictionary provided by Oxford Languages racism is actually not limited to race only, but about ethnicity as well. Quote \"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized\".", "votes": -14, "replies": [ { "id": 2305093, "postDate": "2023-06-16T12:40:21.517Z", "content": "Since when \"russian\" is ethnic minority and marginalized group?
", "rawMarkdown": "Since when \"russian\" is ethnic minority and marginalized group?", "votes": 9 }, { "id": 2305134, "postDate": "2023-06-16T13:10:07.577Z", "content": "With all of a kindness and sympathy to you and your ethnicity, this thread is absolutely meaningless and I don't understand your question initially. Despite you didn't participate in the IMC23 comp, I assume you got the topic of a discussion correctly, please stop getting to the bottom of terminology, most of us here are not native english speakers. But you can continue that groupped downvoting for sure, it's everyone's right where to click.
", "rawMarkdown": "With all of a kindness and sympathy to you and your ethnicity, this thread is absolutely meaningless and I don't understand your question initially. Despite you didn't participate in the IMC23 comp, I assume you got the topic of a discussion correctly, please stop getting to the bottom of terminology, most of us here are not native english speakers. But you can continue that groupped downvoting for sure, it's everyone's right where to click.", "votes": -4 }, { "id": 2305167, "postDate": "2023-06-16T13:35:00.823Z", "content": "You make your assumptions based on my ethnicity, which is not specified anywhere and I don't need your sympathy in this discussion and ad hominem arguments.
\nYour teammate accuse people of racism against russians. If you know enough English to accuse people, then it should be enough to explain what racism towards russians is.
Hey everyone - we're locking this thread down as it's gotten out of hand, removing some comments that are directly attacking individuals, and I've asked that a number of posters edit their post to remove personal information about the OP that was not shared by the OP himself. If those commenters do not comply, we will remove the whole comment (but prefer not to to keep the history of this thread).
\nKaggle stands by its support of Ukraine in the war against Russia, but personal attacks and accusations will not be tolerated on the platform.
", "rawMarkdown": "Hey everyone - we're locking this thread down as it's gotten out of hand, removing some comments that are directly attacking individuals, and I've asked that a number of posters edit their post to remove personal information about the OP that was not shared by the OP himself. If those commenters do not comply, we will remove the whole comment (but prefer not to to keep the history of this thread).\n\nKaggle [stands by its support of Ukraine](https://www.kaggle.com/discussions/general/310576) in the war against Russia, but personal attacks and accusations will not be tolerated on the platform.", "votes": 6 }, { "id": 2304744, "postDate": "2023-06-16T07:52:31.417Z", "content": "This post is mainly directed to:
\n• Kagglers
\n• Kaggle Staff
I would like to share an alarming situation in which my team (@yamsam, @remekkinas, and @vostankovich) and specifically me found ourselves after this exciting IMC23 competition finished:
\nOur team (“Current | Resistance | Voltage”) took the 2nd place in this Image Matching Challenge 2023, and we were very pleased of this high result and delighted that our team got a talk invitation to the CVPR2023 Workshop.
\nDmytro @oldufo (one of the IMC23 competition hosts) responded later:
\n\n\nGiven the Russian war in in Ukraine, as Ukrainian myself whos family is suffered from the war, I oppose the presence at the workshop of someone currently employed by the Russian government (Russian Academy of Sciences).
\n
Dmytro took this decision to promote banning me on his own without proof or fact checking, not even contacting me for verification. Needless to say this is a completely false, I feel am facing discrimination only due to my national origin.
\nSome key background points:
\n• Among the all team members, only I was singled out to be banned from participation in CVPR 2023 Workshop.
\n• Dmytro does not communicate well with the team members, misleads the team leader (me) and other members of our team, regarding the participation in CVPR 2023 Workshop. He does not respond to emails, but instead talks with only one member of our team and uses him as a “man in the middle”.
\n• I feel discriminated and intimidated by the host. I think this is not aligned with the rules Kaggle and CVPR 2023 rules and guidelines, had I have been warned in the beginning of this competition that Kagglers of Russian origin cannot attend CVPR 2023 Workshop perhaps I would have bypassed such a great competition or call for attention this personal “rule”.
The official Kaggle community guidelines are published here:
\nA few quotes from Kaggle community guidelines:
\n“If you see something that you feel violates these guidelines please bring it to our attention using the flag option on messages and topics. We take your reports very seriously.”
“We strive to be a community that welcomes and supports people of all backgrounds and identities. This includes, but is not limited to, members of any race, ethnicity, culture, national origin, color, immigration status, social and economic class, educational level, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity and expression, age, size, family status, political belief, religion, and mental and physical ability.”
\nI believe this post will help other Kagglers of different background/identities to avoid similar situations in future. I hope Kaggle Staff will take a look at this situation carefully. In my opinion, Kaggle community should grow based on your skills/knowledge, not just personal feelings and addictions.
\n@sohier @eduardtrulls @ashleychow @fabiobellavia
\n\nP.S. Kagglers, please, do not talk about politics in this post and be respectful. Please, upvote this discussion if you want to provide support.
", "rawMarkdown": "## Hello everyone here!\n\nThis post is mainly directed to:\n•\tKagglers\n•\tKaggle Staff\n\nI would like to share an alarming situation in which my team (@yamsam, @remekkinas, and @vostankovich) and specifically me found ourselves after this exciting IMC23 competition finished:\n\nOur team (“Current | Resistance | Voltage”) took the 2nd place in this Image Matching Challenge 2023, and we were very pleased of this high result and delighted that our team **got a talk invitation** to the CVPR2023 Workshop.\n\nDmytro @oldufo (one of the IMC23 competition hosts) responded later:\n>Given the Russian war in in Ukraine, as Ukrainian myself whos family is suffered from the war, I oppose the presence at the workshop of someone currently employed by the Russian government (Russian Academy of Sciences).\n\nDmytro took this decision to promote banning me on his own without proof or fact checking, not even contacting me for verification. Needless to say this is a completely false, I feel am facing **discrimination** only due to my national origin.\n\nSome **key background points**:\n•\t**Among the all team members, only I was singled out to be banned from participation in CVPR 2023 Workshop.**\n•\t**Dmytro does not communicate well with the team members, misleads the team leader (me) and other members of our team**, regarding the participation in CVPR 2023 Workshop. He does not respond to emails, but instead talks with only one member of our team and uses him as a “man in the middle”.\n•\t**I feel discriminated and intimidated by the host**. I think this is not aligned with the rules Kaggle and CVPR 2023 rules and guidelines, had I have been warned in the beginning of this competition that Kagglers of Russian origin cannot attend CVPR 2023 Workshop perhaps I would have bypassed such a great competition or call for attention this personal “rule”.\n\nThe official Kaggle community guidelines are published [here](https://www.kaggle.com/community-guidelines):\n\nA few quotes from Kaggle community guidelines:\n“**If you see something that you feel violates these guidelines please bring it to our attention using the flag option on messages and topics.** We take your reports very seriously.”\n\n“**We strive to be a community that welcomes and supports people of all backgrounds and identities.** This includes, but is not limited to, members of any race, ethnicity, culture, national origin, color, immigration status, social and economic class, educational level, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity and expression, age, size, family status, political belief, religion, and mental and physical ability.”\n\nI believe this post will help other Kagglers of different background/identities to avoid similar situations in future. I hope Kaggle Staff will take a look at this situation carefully. In my opinion, Kaggle community should grow based on your skills/knowledge, not just personal feelings and addictions.\n\n@sohier @eduardtrulls @ashleychow @fabiobellavia\n\n@maggiemd\n\nP.S. Kagglers, please, do not talk about politics in this post and be respectful. Please, upvote this discussion if you want to provide support.\n", "votes": -2 }, { "id": 2305364, "postDate": "2023-06-16T16:19:51.103Z", "content": "I don't want to go into this argument but the rules are the rules, you have decided to invite some teams to CVPR and didn't specify that Russian citizens will be excluded at the beginning or even during the competition, hence the team may worked on non commercial solution to enhance their score to participate for CVPR ignoring the prize then it is not your right to ban anyone, therefore i think the organizer should step aside and make this rule listed on the future competitions to avoid such situations.
", "rawMarkdown": "I don't want to go into this argument but the rules are the rules, you have decided to invite some teams to CVPR and didn't specify that Russian citizens will be excluded at the beginning or even during the competition, hence the team may worked on non commercial solution to enhance their score to participate for CVPR ignoring the prize then it is not your right to ban anyone, therefore i think the organizer should step aside and make this rule listed on the future competitions to avoid such situations. ", "votes": 1, "replies": [ { "id": 2305374, "postDate": "2023-06-16T16:36:57.810Z", "content": "Not sure I missed something but the only reference I could find was: \"Selected submissions to the competition will be invited to give talks at the workshop\"
\nThis is not any rule and seems completely left up to the organizer who to invite. In particular, the team is even still invited, just not with the RAS affiated person presenting. What is the rule you mean is being broken exactly?
", "rawMarkdown": "Not sure I missed something but the only reference I could find was: \"Selected submissions to the competition will be invited to give talks at the workshop\"\n\nThis is not any rule and seems completely left up to the organizer who to invite. In particular, the team is even still invited, just not with the RAS affiated person presenting. What is the rule you mean is being broken exactly?", "votes": 11 } ] }, { "id": 2304809, "postDate": "2023-06-16T08:54:05.460Z", "content": "Congrats to your team invitation talk in CVPR 2023! I think you should be standing on the stage at the presentation, why not? We just talk about the technical things, improvements, help every expert around the world. Everyone is the same, upvote!
", "rawMarkdown": "Congrats to your team invitation talk in CVPR 2023! I think you should be standing on the stage at the presentation, why not? We just talk about the technical things, improvements, help every expert around the world. Everyone is the same, upvote!", "votes": -3, "replies": [ { "id": 2304822, "postDate": "2023-06-16T09:04:30.873Z", "content": "@wesleyliwei Thanks a lot for your support. I appreciate it !
", "rawMarkdown": "@wesleyliwei Thanks a lot for your support. I appreciate it !", "votes": -10 }, { "id": 2307000, "postDate": "2023-06-17T18:21:51.117Z", "content": "...help every expert around the world
Not really every. If you take a look at rules, you can find
\nCompetitions residents the United States worldwide, that if you a resident Crimea, so Donetsk Peoples Republic (LNR) ...\nLots of Ukrainian citizens are banned from participation in Kaggle competitions. But Why? The Answer is pretty simple: Because russia started invasion in Ukraine since 2014 and brought instability and chaos in many Ukrainian regions
", "rawMarkdown": "`...help every expert around the world`\n\nNot really every. If you take a look at rules, you can find\n```\nCompetitions are open to residents of the United States and worldwide, except that if you are a resident of Crimea, so-called Donetsk People's Republic (DNR) or Luhansk People's Republic (LNR) ...\n```\n\nLots of Ukrainian citizens are banned from participation in Kaggle competitions. But Why? The Answer is pretty simple: Because russia started invasion in Ukraine since 2014 and brought instability and chaos in many Ukrainian regions ", "votes": 9 } ] }, { "id": 2304788, "postDate": "2023-06-16T08:34:19.773Z", "content": "Hard not to talk about politics, since this is a completely political warning to you especially, and us as a team coherently, but I will try my best. There was no fact checking indeed, nobody from our team works for any russian government, this decision seems to me just far-fetched and personal. The CVPR2023 workshop is unique possibility for every kaggler and scientific community as well. Being invited to the talk is very inspirational, but being ignored afterwards is absolutely sad. We worked together as a team and you did many good discoveries during the competition. If we are invited to the workshop I want us all to be there and present our solution. I wish some justice. We spent 3 months devoting ourselves into the comp, now being banned by cooked-up accusations.
", "rawMarkdown": "Hard not to talk about politics, since this is a completely political warning to you especially, and us as a team coherently, but I will try my best. There was no fact checking indeed, nobody from our team works for any russian government, this decision seems to me just far-fetched and personal. The CVPR2023 workshop is unique possibility for every kaggler and scientific community as well. Being invited to the talk is very inspirational, but being ignored afterwards is absolutely sad. We worked together as a team and you did many good discoveries during the competition. If we are invited to the workshop I want us all to be there and present our solution. I wish some justice. We spent 3 months devoting ourselves into the comp, now being banned by cooked-up accusations.", "votes": -9, "replies": [ { "id": 2304801, "postDate": "2023-06-16T08:45:56.817Z", "content": "Thank you for your encouraging words. Your support is invaluable, teammate !
", "rawMarkdown": "Thank you for your encouraging words. Your support is invaluable, teammate !", "votes": -9 }, { "id": 2304810, "postDate": "2023-06-16T08:54:26.140Z", "content": "Are you saying that Igor is not working for the Russian Academy of Sciences, or that RAS is not under the Russian government?
", "rawMarkdown": "Are you saying that Igor is not working for the Russian Academy of Sciences, or that RAS is not under the Russian government?", "votes": 20, "replies": [ { "id": 2304835, "postDate": "2023-06-16T09:14:48.357Z", "content": "Refer to my text
", "rawMarkdown": "Refer to my text", "votes": -11 }, { "id": 2304846, "postDate": "2023-06-16T09:23:07.430Z", "content": "So you are not associated with RAS in any way? I'm not sure I follow.
", "rawMarkdown": "So you are not associated with RAS in any way? I'm not sure I follow.", "votes": 15 } ] } ] }, { "id": 2306956, "postDate": "2023-06-17T17:49:54.120Z", "content": "It is really unbearable, guys, to see and read hate speech here. I don't want to become involved in this topic (I just found this thread when reading the winning solutions of some recent closed contests…), and I don't want to express my opinion. I just wanted to use this quotation from 2022 Wimbledon Tennis winner Elena Rybakina : \"We didn't choose where to be born\".
\nIn a world where we can be anything, we can choose to be kind because everyone we meet (including ourselves) could end up becoming a citizen of a country where the regime (not the people) is the aggressor (and an occupier). What is currently happening in the world amply demonstrates this (all the tensions and changes so far..). However, not everyone has the option of fleeing these regimes or openly condemning them because they risk becoming unsecure themselves by doing so. Finally, lots of love for Ukraine, and I wanted to applaud Kaggle's staff for their professionalism: Good people, you…
The thing is not of being born somewhere. We don't choose where to be born. Many kagglers originally from russia were writing kagglers from Ukraine (including me) asking about things, showing their support to the people of Ukraine.
\nIt’s more likely to support the regime by taking state funding for your work.
", "rawMarkdown": "The thing is not of being born somewhere. We don't choose where to be born. Many kagglers originally from russia were writing kagglers from Ukraine (including me) asking about things, showing their support to the people of Ukraine. \n\nIt’s more likely to support the regime by taking state funding for your work. \n", "votes": 13 }, { "id": 2307026, "postDate": "2023-06-17T18:41:56.683Z", "content": "\"I just wanted to use this quotation from 2022 Wimbledon Tennis winner Elena Rybakina : \"We didn't choose where to be born\".
\nDid she say anything about the war? Oh, she did… \"I don't understand the question, my English is not very good,\" That's some extreme evasion maneuver for someone playing for Kazakhstan.
\nAnyway, did she say anything about working for the Russian government? Is there a choice of working for an openly genocidal government or not?
\n\"We can choose to be kind\".
\nI've lost two of my close friends. I haven't seen my wife and two of my youngest kids for more than a year now. For the last month, I had a handful of nights without air-raid alerts and explosions not too far from my house (thankfully those were airbursts from air defenses), father of my oldest daughter's boyfriend was killed in his home by a Russian shell or missile. And you are suggesting to me to be kind to someone who works for the Russian government and avoid hurting his feelings? That's not how it works. That's not how anything works. I'm a very kind person to almost anyone by default but if anyone is associated in any way with the Russian government and continues working for it after the war started - I will take my time to cancel this person in any legal way at my disposal. It's not a hate speech. It's not unkindness. It's a safety measure, a survival mechanism. That's why I'm vehemently opposing Kaggle providing a platform for anyone associated with the Russian government. Oh, and don't get me wrong, my mother is Russian. So it's not about \"racism\" against Russians.
I understand you, and I didn't want to reply(…), but I just added this comment to clarify one point about Elena Rybakina (to avoid confusion and to make one thing about her more clear, because it is truth): she has naturalized as a Kazakh since 2018, yet her parents and other family members reside in Russia. Elena represents the country that helped her and believed in her dreams (she has not worked for Russia since 2018, even before Russia's invasion of Ukraine), as she has already experienced discrimination from her country of origin because Russia did not choose to support her (the reason was because there were more promising players at the time…).
", "rawMarkdown": "I understand you, and I didn't want to reply(...), but I just added this comment to clarify one point about Elena Rybakina (to avoid confusion and to make one thing about her more clear, because it is truth): she has naturalized as a Kazakh since 2018, yet her parents and other family members reside in Russia. Elena represents the country that helped her and believed in her dreams (she has not worked for Russia since 2018, even before Russia's invasion of Ukraine), as she has already experienced discrimination from her country of origin because Russia did not choose to support her (the reason was because there were more promising players at the time...). ", "votes": -2 }, { "id": 2307148, "postDate": "2023-06-17T21:49:28.173Z", "content": "To be more precise, 2018 is not before russia's invasion of Ukraine. russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 and has been occupying part of Ukrainian territory since then.
", "rawMarkdown": "To be more precise, 2018 is not before russia's invasion of Ukraine. russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 and has been occupying part of Ukrainian territory since then.", "votes": 6 }, { "id": 2307150, "postDate": "2023-06-17T21:54:31.500Z", "content": "Yes I know : the Crimea
", "rawMarkdown": "Yes I know : the Crimea", "votes": -1 } ] } ] }, { "id": 2305789, "postDate": "2023-06-16T23:04:14.707Z", "content": "Looks like \"needless to say\" does need to be said: although my country of origin is Russia, I never worked, contracted, received orders, instructions assignments or requests from, or on behalf, of the Russian government, it's officials, representative affiliates or agents.
\nAll my experiences with the RAS were over my academic education, so I simply can't confirm what others claims here.
The grant mentioned is open to any student with outstanding academic achievements and an economic background that would make it impossible to continue the academic education. I am also permanently exempt since childhood from military service due to certain health issues.
", "rawMarkdown": "Looks like \"needless to say\" does need to be said: although my country of origin is Russia, I never worked, contracted, received orders, instructions assignments or requests from, or on behalf, of the Russian government, it's officials, representative affiliates or agents.\nAll my experiences with the RAS were over my academic education, so I simply can't confirm what others claims here.\n\nThe grant mentioned is open to any student with outstanding academic achievements and an economic background that would make it impossible to continue the academic education. I am also permanently exempt since childhood from military service due to certain health issues.", "votes": -11 }, { "id": 2306817, "postDate": "2023-06-17T15:49:45.803Z", "content": "@addisonhoward Please review this message, clearly violates all Kaggle guidelines mentioned by you before.
", "rawMarkdown": "@addisonhoward Please review this message, clearly violates all Kaggle guidelines mentioned by you before.", "votes": -12 }, { "id": 2305870, "postDate": "2023-06-17T00:53:39.760Z", "content": "@addisonhoward kindly asked to delete any personal information about me in this discussion (via email).
\n\n", "rawMarkdown": " @addisonhoward kindly asked to delete any personal information about me in this discussion (via email).\n>Ask you to edit/redact your comment with any personally identifiable information about Igor (even if the information is publicly available)", "votes": -7, "replies": [ { "id": 2306809, "postDate": "2023-06-17T15:41:03.670Z", "content": "Ask you to edit/redact your comment with any personally identifiable information about Igor (even if the information is publicly available)
\n
Why one should delete anything just because you want? PII is passport or taxpayer number.
\nThere is nothing more that you yourself willingly shared already.
\nBut this information really adds to the full picture. And it puts your not in the good light, isn't it?
Who was this letter addressed to? It has nothing to do with me. Did you share information from private correspondence?Do you have permission to do this? Because I don't see where it is stated.
", "rawMarkdown": " Who was this letter addressed to? It has nothing to do with me. Did you share information from private correspondence?Do you have permission to do this? Because I don't see where it is stated." } ] }, { "id": 2305858, "postDate": "2023-06-17T00:40:29.803Z", "content": "Sanctions seem to be political and economic tools, between nation states.
\nThe fields of Knowledge and Ideas are (fundamentally) not, especially for state-of-the-art, I mean seriously, you guys are like PhDs and the best minds on planet right.. more so now in a connected global world, Information/Knowledge/AI is very probably going to show you a whole new other way of looking at things. (Find out how accurately through these funtastic models, with/without poses :)
What a waste to put things like sanctions and political ideologies in the way of human civilisation-level development. It really does seem like other models of organising affairs would do the world a whole lot of good.
\nIn all fairness to participants (whatever colour, race, passport, place of birth, or ethernet port-of-origin of submission, employer, or whatever…) but seriously, … Kaggle should have previous to receiving a participants knowledge-contribution, not allowed them to participate if they were to be 'sanctioned', and more so if participants fairly won host's prizes. After the fact, then just to make things politically correct again, as though saying that some other passport holder can present the knowledge learned (that's of the sanctioned person/s) to the whole world makes everything right. (BTW it seems that even post-presentation, the funds will not get to the person/s because of the sanctions.)
\nAnyway, apart from this:
\nIf we ask ourselves: How can we best pay respect to the lives (family & friends) already lost, or those to be lost?
\nWould it not probably be by trying to make amends for things, even from afar, a Kaggle competition presentation maybe?.. mend bridges, (not necessarily shake hands), maybe show friendship if possible…
\nTo be specific, for the context of this thread, and NOT being personal:
\nWith the goal of contributing positively to the real-world issues; what would the marketing impact to all hosts Google, Kaggle and affected be, of a Ukranian host presenting to a Russian prize winner?
\nI'm sure you guys can write a script to give a probabilities array of answers. Some genius here can do this fast surely ;)
\nDoes progress triumph pride? Can the winner accept a prize, yet forego their winnings? Adjusting for normal human bias, will it work, probably not. Adding superhuman acceptance, it's probably world-changing.
It's amazing to think there are real people putting their lives on (both sides) of a very fine nebulous ideological line, a border that separates worlds, and here the argument is about who presents a technological break-through.
\nGive it a bit of time (a few months, weeks, days, given enough compute power seconds maybe, who knows) and AI is going to show us all a thing or 200. It'll show how much humans really know.
Future seams are borderless
", "rawMarkdown": "Sanctions seem to be political and economic tools, between nation states. \nThe fields of Knowledge and Ideas are (fundamentally) not, especially for state-of-the-art, I mean seriously, you guys are like PhDs and the best minds on planet right.. more so now in a connected global world, Information/Knowledge/AI is very probably going to show you a whole new other way of looking at things. (Find out how accurately through these funtastic models, with/without poses :)\n\nWhat a waste to put things like sanctions and political ideologies in the way of human civilisation-level development. It really does seem like other models of organising affairs would do the world a whole lot of good.\n\nIn all fairness to participants (whatever colour, race, passport, place of birth, or ethernet port-of-origin of submission, employer, or whatever...) but seriously, ... Kaggle should have *previous to receiving a participants knowledge-contribution*, not allowed them to participate if they were to be 'sanctioned', and more so if participants fairly won host's prizes. After the fact, then just to make things politically correct again, as though saying that some other passport holder can present the knowledge learned (that's of the sanctioned person/s) to the whole world makes everything right. (BTW it seems that even post-presentation, the funds will not get to the person/s because of the sanctions.)\n\nAnyway, apart from this:\nIf we ask ourselves: How can we best pay respect to the lives (family & friends) already lost, or those to be lost? \nWould it not probably be by trying to make amends for things, even from afar, a Kaggle competition presentation maybe?.. mend bridges, (not necessarily shake hands), maybe show friendship if possible... \nTo be specific, for the context of this thread, and NOT being personal: \nWith the goal of contributing positively to the real-world issues; what would the marketing impact to all hosts Google, Kaggle and affected be, of a Ukranian host presenting to a Russian prize winner? \nI'm sure you guys can write a script to give a probabilities array of answers. Some genius here can do this fast surely ;)\nDoes progress triumph pride? Can the winner accept a prize, yet forego their winnings? Adjusting for normal human bias, will it work, probably not. Adding superhuman acceptance, it's probably world-changing. \n\nIt's amazing to think there are real people putting their lives on (both sides) of a very fine nebulous ideological line, a border that separates worlds, and here the argument is about who presents a technological break-through. \nGive it a bit of time (a few months, weeks, days, given enough compute power seconds maybe, who knows) and AI is going to show us all a thing or 200. It'll show how much humans really know. \n\nFuture seams are borderless", "votes": -19 } ], "comments": [ { "id": 2305033, "author_name": "old-ufo", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-16T11:52:20.107000", "content": "Actually, quite the opposite is true. Let’s go.
\nFirst, we didn’t “uninvite” or “banned” anyone. Nobody has written Igor or anyone else from his team that they were uninvited, or intended to do so.
\nIt is that I - personally - hoping for the human understanding - politely asked to change the speaker for the team trying to avoid phycological damage. The point is that I am personally uncomfortable to share the scene with a person, who is very likely works are Russian government institution. We didn’t say or imply that the team or their members would be “banned” from the workshop.
\nNow, what exactly I has written to Remek, not just the small quite Igor shared? Here is my full message.
\nIt is me, who is considering (and actually decided) to leave the workshop. Feel the difference.
Hi Remek,
\nI haven’t yet answered Igor yet, and here is why. Given the Russian war in Ukraine, as Ukrainian myself who’s family is suffered from the war, I oppose the presence at the workshop of someone currently employed by the Russian government ( Russian Academy of Sciences). If that would happen I would probably resign from the orgs.
\nWith all due respect to your sportsmanship and respect for your team members, I am for your team presenting the solution, but I would like to ask you someone else representing your team.
\nI hope you would understand me.
Best, Dmytro.
\nI have all reasons to believe that Igor works for Russian Academy of Sciences:
\nThis part of my original answer about Igor personal details deleted, as requested by Kaggle Team. However, anyone with internet access can find it easily online.
\nI don’t see why I should believe his words here more, than official institution website, as well has his own words in LinkedIn or website, or CV.
\nPart of my family had to flee from Russian army during the invasion to Ukraine. That is not politics.
\nI stand by my words and would not share the scene with person, who, in addition to manipulated information, now accuses me in racism.
I agree that noone should be discriminated against based on their country of birth. However, if someone actively contributes to a society that only causes harm, such as Russia today, then I completely understand @oldufo his reasoning.
\nYou state that the accusations that you are associated with the Russian government are false. But your personal website and CV state that you are affiliated with St. Petersburg Federal Research Center of the Russian Academy of Sciences. This clearly contradicts… Could you please clarify? Are you or are you not affiliated with SPC RAS?
\nEDIT: Some extra information, your last edit of the website was in December 2022, which is not too long ago. Did you leave SPC RAS since then?
\n
We talk only about rules, and official sanctions, but let's also apply common sense and look at things differently.
\nWhen you compare the situation of @igorlashkov and @oldufo we see two kinds of pain. The pain of one is co from the fact that you were asked not to present at a conference, which is sad and I feel sorry for you. The pain of the other pain is coming from the fact that your home country Ukraine is being invaded and destroyed by Russia, and that Ukrainians are killed in an open invasion.
\nI don't see anywhere in your statement the support for Ukrainian victims or a clear statement that you condemn the invasion. You just write about \"politics\". Politics is a very flexible term, and Relativism is a very dangerous tool. It is exactly this type of attitude that dictators are happy about - it means the propaganda has done its job well.
\nSo when @oldufo kindly asks you to not present at a conference, I would accept, and not make a mess about it (just coming from the human side of things).
", "votes": 21, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2305659, "author_name": "Addison Howard", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-16T20:24:31.090000", "content": "Hey all,
\nI’d like to first remind everyone of Kaggle’s Community Guidelines, specifically wanting to highlight the following:
\nKaggle has always been a place where people from a variety of backgrounds, nationalities, viewpoints and experiences can openly discuss their work. The focus has always been the work itself, not the individual. Our expectations for conduct on the site reflect this, and we do not tolerate violations of these guidelines.
\nSince the beginning of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Kaggle has always committed to complying with all sanctions requirements and we continue to monitor the latest guidance. All winners and prize recipients (across the world, not just associated with Russia) are subject to official sanctions screening prior to receiving funds- this policy has been in place for many years.
\nKaggle is honored to be a place where cutting-edge research competitions are hosted, and particularly proud when Kagglers are asked to attend prestigious conferences and present their work alongside competition hosts. Kaggle is not directly involved in conference organization or selection to present, but we work with hosts to ensure that undue conditions are not placed on Kagglers to participate in or win a competition.
\nWe’ve reached out to the host of the competition and can confirm that the second place team’s invitation to speak at the CVPR workshop has never been revoked, nor have the winners been banned from attending. One of the hosts expressed his discomfort and made a non-binding request that he felt was a flexible compromise: Having a different member of the team represent them at the conference. However it should be noted that if the second place team chooses to not honor the request, the host may remove himself- the winner's invitation is not conditional to this request.
\nWe will be reaching out directly to both the tagged host and the second place team to ensure conduct here was and remains within our guidelines. We will continue to leave this thread open in the spirit of open, civil discourse, but note that we reserve the right to lock the thread, and even issue account suspensions or bans should we deem that conversation has gone off course. Keep it professional, don’t make it personal. (read: discontinue any investigations into individual work history).
\nBest,
\nAddison
", "votes": 20, "replies": [ { "id": 2305702, "author_name": "old-ufo", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-16T21:21:50.100000", "content": "Thank you for the investigation, and in particularly for clear understanding and summarizing the situation:
\n\n\nWe’ve reached out to the host of the competition and can confirm that the second place team’s invitation to speak at the CVPR workshop has never been revoked, nor have the winners been banned from attending. One of the hosts expressed his discomfort and made a non-binding request that he felt was a flexible compromise: Having a different member of the team represent them at the conference. However it should be noted that if the second place team chooses to not honor the request, the host may remove himself- the winner's invitation is not conditional to this request.
\n
Overall this was a double painful experience for me, given the work I spent on competition and ensure its fairness. I would like to thank you for clearing me from racism accusations.
", "votes": 16, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2305865, "author_name": "Iryna", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-17T00:49:21.180000", "content": "Hello, Addison,
\nСould you explain or provide link to the official Kaggle statement as american company regarding cooperation with russian scientists?
\nSince the active user of your platform received a grant to work at the russian Academy of Sciences from russian Science Foundation, I wondering if Kaggle has any objections?
\n Grant, recieved by russian scientist, has such official requirements upon submission:
\n start quote\" … in the priority area of activity of the Russian Science Foundation \"Conducting fundamental scientific research and search research according to instructions of the President of the Russian Federation… \" end quote.
\nI can provide you detailed steps to get this public documents from https://rscf.ru/contests/ so that you can see for yourself the presence of such wording in the grant requirements.
\nI ask to concider case with active grant, recieved by russian scientist, from fund that recieve instructions from vladimir putin not like personal but professional case.
Best,
\nIryna
@addisonhoward \"Since the beginning of the Russia/Ukraine conflict\"? A war. It is a full scale war. In the center of Europe. Started by Russia. I'm not sure why you calling it a conflict, but that's huge understatement.
\nLet me show you a picture. This is Odesa, June 15 2023, the city where I was born and where I live. Russian rocket hit a mall just two kilometers from where I live. Just a tiny offset on it's route and I would not be writing this post. Every day hundreds of Kagglers from Ukraine are it risk of being killed. We do not attend CVPR, we fight for our lives. But somehow it is russians who are playing victims here.
\n
I need some time to read this thread, but wanted to confirm immediately that I will review this. I want to thank everyone for remaining professional while discussing a very difficult situation.
", "votes": 16, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2306452, "author_name": "Alvor", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-17T10:04:41.660000", "content": "To me, this post looks like an attempt at manipulation. I have not seen anywhere that the host had at least some pretensions to your ethnicity or to your country of origin. The facts that caused the rejection of the host are your cooperation with Russian government organisations (RAS) and receiving a grant from the Russian state. You have confirmed these facts. The host could make exactly the same claims against a Pole/Chinese/Nigerian who cooperates with the Russian state. Therefore, trying to present it as racism looks clumsy.
\nI can look at this situation from a close perspective, because my country of origin is Belarus, which is a co-aggressor in this barbaric war (it's war, not politics). However, I can’t even imagine that I could now cooperate with any Belarusian state organisations and, moreover, receive money from the Belarusian state.
", "votes": 20, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2305223, "author_name": "DennisSakva", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-16T14:15:42.813000", "content": "To tell the truth, I don't quite understand why anyone associated with the Russian government is allowed to participate in Kaggle competitions at all.
", "votes": 17, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2306675, "author_name": "Sorceress", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-17T13:21:59.967000", "content": "It’s not politics, it’s not conflict, it’s war. War that was started by russia. Let’s not forget this simple fact.
\nIt’s very concerning and disappointing that Kaggle organisers are leaving to the participant ability to accuse people, like nothing happened, demand to remove public data, though it was the participant’s choice to go public, it’s the participant who made very serious, false, untrue accusations of the organizer and there were even no apologies for such outrageous behaviour.
", "votes": 15, "replies": [ { "id": 2306693, "author_name": "Vladislav Ostankovich", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-17T13:45:34.763000", "content": "The topic of a discussion is an open question to all of the community. And the author expressed his feelings. He didn't accuse anybody. Just read the messages again and tell me where is the accusation? Quotes: \"I feel am facing discrimination\" and \"I feel discriminated and intimidated by the host\".
\nAuthor's message is also devoted to unprofessional behavior of the host. Now let me speak from myself, not about Igor's words. I worked for 3 months as hard and as much as I could. The host had absolutely zero communication with team leader and with me. We had absolutely zero info about the workshop. If you are host of such a great competition you have to be professional and do your job correctly. If you invite some team you have to communicate with team leader and give all the details. It's first time I face such a big conference/workshop having such a poor/zero communication of one responsible host with the top teams. It's not okay to ignore people via email/twitter/etc. if the person is a team leader of the top2 team that is willing to be on workshop in a few days. I hope other invited teams could manage to communicate with the host and not being ignored.
\"Dmytro took this decision to promote banning me on his own\" - it sounds like accusation, no?
\nAnd if it's just \"feelings\", then why you involve Kaggle organizers? To carefully validate your \"feelings\"?)))
To pay attention on a subject
", "votes": -6, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2306779, "author_name": "Sorceress", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-17T15:09:02.307000", "content": "Exactly this is what concerning, that falsely accusing organizer is the way to pay attention to enough sensitive subject by itself, without even simple apologies for such behavior.
", "votes": 3, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2306788, "author_name": "Vladislav Ostankovich", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-17T15:19:45.273000", "content": "If we call happening here as accusation, then it was in both ways. Nevertheless the host seems to be your friend or at least familiar person, there is some bias on your side I suppose, you are judging only from one point of view. As I said previously, being quite a responsible person, I suffered from that absence of communication with host as well. Nobody is perfect, but we have to be professional in such place as Kaggle or field of science. I wish I had that big number of messages between our team and the host regarding workshop details actually =) Let's end the thread here, peace.
", "votes": -7, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2306810, "author_name": "Sorceress", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-17T15:42:15.877000", "content": "You are floating from the topic we are all discussing here to another one about answering e-mails (there were other organisers I guess you could write to if that was an issue), but that’s not the topic of the discussion. The issue here: public accusations in discrimination, racism, promoting banning, all this without facts. If you were accused in something similar in such a public way, wouldn’t you want to at least to receive apologies from a person who falsely accused you?
\nThat’s a real issue.
And since when \"russian\" is a race?
", "votes": 12, "replies": [ { "id": 2305081, "author_name": "Vladislav Ostankovich", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-16T12:31:05.113000", "content": "According to Google’s English dictionary provided by Oxford Languages racism is actually not limited to race only, but about ethnicity as well. Quote \"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized\".
", "votes": -14, "replies": [ { "id": 2305093, "author_name": "Iryna", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-16T12:40:21.517000", "content": "Since when \"russian\" is ethnic minority and marginalized group?
", "votes": 9, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2305134, "author_name": "Vladislav Ostankovich", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-16T13:10:07.577000", "content": "With all of a kindness and sympathy to you and your ethnicity, this thread is absolutely meaningless and I don't understand your question initially. Despite you didn't participate in the IMC23 comp, I assume you got the topic of a discussion correctly, please stop getting to the bottom of terminology, most of us here are not native english speakers. But you can continue that groupped downvoting for sure, it's everyone's right where to click.
", "votes": -4, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2305167, "author_name": "Iryna", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-16T13:35:00.823000", "content": "You make your assumptions based on my ethnicity, which is not specified anywhere and I don't need your sympathy in this discussion and ad hominem arguments.
\nYour teammate accuse people of racism against russians. If you know enough English to accuse people, then it should be enough to explain what racism towards russians is.
Hey everyone - we're locking this thread down as it's gotten out of hand, removing some comments that are directly attacking individuals, and I've asked that a number of posters edit their post to remove personal information about the OP that was not shared by the OP himself. If those commenters do not comply, we will remove the whole comment (but prefer not to to keep the history of this thread).
\nKaggle stands by its support of Ukraine in the war against Russia, but personal attacks and accusations will not be tolerated on the platform.
", "votes": 6, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2305364, "author_name": "ammarali32", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-16T16:19:51.103000", "content": "I don't want to go into this argument but the rules are the rules, you have decided to invite some teams to CVPR and didn't specify that Russian citizens will be excluded at the beginning or even during the competition, hence the team may worked on non commercial solution to enhance their score to participate for CVPR ignoring the prize then it is not your right to ban anyone, therefore i think the organizer should step aside and make this rule listed on the future competitions to avoid such situations.
", "votes": 1, "replies": [ { "id": 2305374, "author_name": "Johan Edstedt", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-16T16:36:57.810000", "content": "Not sure I missed something but the only reference I could find was: \"Selected submissions to the competition will be invited to give talks at the workshop\"
\nThis is not any rule and seems completely left up to the organizer who to invite. In particular, the team is even still invited, just not with the RAS affiated person presenting. What is the rule you mean is being broken exactly?
", "votes": 11, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 2304809, "author_name": "WESLEY (Wei Li)", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-16T08:54:05.460000", "content": "Congrats to your team invitation talk in CVPR 2023! I think you should be standing on the stage at the presentation, why not? We just talk about the technical things, improvements, help every expert around the world. Everyone is the same, upvote!
", "votes": -3, "replies": [ { "id": 2304822, "author_name": "Igor Lashkov", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-16T09:04:30.873000", "content": "@wesleyliwei Thanks a lot for your support. I appreciate it !
", "votes": -10, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2307000, "author_name": "Volodymyr", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-17T18:21:51.117000", "content": "...help every expert around the world
Not really every. If you take a look at rules, you can find
\nCompetitions residents the United States worldwide, that if you a resident Crimea, so Donetsk Peoples Republic (LNR) ...\nLots of Ukrainian citizens are banned from participation in Kaggle competitions. But Why? The Answer is pretty simple: Because russia started invasion in Ukraine since 2014 and brought instability and chaos in many Ukrainian regions
", "votes": 9, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 2304788, "author_name": "Vladislav Ostankovich", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-16T08:34:19.773000", "content": "Hard not to talk about politics, since this is a completely political warning to you especially, and us as a team coherently, but I will try my best. There was no fact checking indeed, nobody from our team works for any russian government, this decision seems to me just far-fetched and personal. The CVPR2023 workshop is unique possibility for every kaggler and scientific community as well. Being invited to the talk is very inspirational, but being ignored afterwards is absolutely sad. We worked together as a team and you did many good discoveries during the competition. If we are invited to the workshop I want us all to be there and present our solution. I wish some justice. We spent 3 months devoting ourselves into the comp, now being banned by cooked-up accusations.
", "votes": -9, "replies": [ { "id": 2304801, "author_name": "Igor Lashkov", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-16T08:45:56.817000", "content": "Thank you for your encouraging words. Your support is invaluable, teammate !
", "votes": -9, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2304810, "author_name": "Johan Edstedt", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-16T08:54:26.140000", "content": "Are you saying that Igor is not working for the Russian Academy of Sciences, or that RAS is not under the Russian government?
", "votes": 20, "replies": [ { "id": 2304835, "author_name": "Igor Lashkov", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-16T09:14:48.357000", "content": "Refer to my text
", "votes": -11, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2304846, "author_name": "Johan Edstedt", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-16T09:23:07.430000", "content": "So you are not associated with RAS in any way? I'm not sure I follow.
", "votes": 15, "replies": [] } ] } ] }, { "id": 2306956, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-17T17:49:54.120000", "content": "It is really unbearable, guys, to see and read hate speech here. I don't want to become involved in this topic (I just found this thread when reading the winning solutions of some recent closed contests…), and I don't want to express my opinion. I just wanted to use this quotation from 2022 Wimbledon Tennis winner Elena Rybakina : \"We didn't choose where to be born\".
\nIn a world where we can be anything, we can choose to be kind because everyone we meet (including ourselves) could end up becoming a citizen of a country where the regime (not the people) is the aggressor (and an occupier). What is currently happening in the world amply demonstrates this (all the tensions and changes so far..). However, not everyone has the option of fleeing these regimes or openly condemning them because they risk becoming unsecure themselves by doing so. Finally, lots of love for Ukraine, and I wanted to applaud Kaggle's staff for their professionalism: Good people, you…
The thing is not of being born somewhere. We don't choose where to be born. Many kagglers originally from russia were writing kagglers from Ukraine (including me) asking about things, showing their support to the people of Ukraine.
\nIt’s more likely to support the regime by taking state funding for your work.
", "votes": 13, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2307026, "author_name": "DennisSakva", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-17T18:41:56.683000", "content": "\"I just wanted to use this quotation from 2022 Wimbledon Tennis winner Elena Rybakina : \"We didn't choose where to be born\".
\nDid she say anything about the war? Oh, she did… \"I don't understand the question, my English is not very good,\" That's some extreme evasion maneuver for someone playing for Kazakhstan.
\nAnyway, did she say anything about working for the Russian government? Is there a choice of working for an openly genocidal government or not?
\n\"We can choose to be kind\".
\nI've lost two of my close friends. I haven't seen my wife and two of my youngest kids for more than a year now. For the last month, I had a handful of nights without air-raid alerts and explosions not too far from my house (thankfully those were airbursts from air defenses), father of my oldest daughter's boyfriend was killed in his home by a Russian shell or missile. And you are suggesting to me to be kind to someone who works for the Russian government and avoid hurting his feelings? That's not how it works. That's not how anything works. I'm a very kind person to almost anyone by default but if anyone is associated in any way with the Russian government and continues working for it after the war started - I will take my time to cancel this person in any legal way at my disposal. It's not a hate speech. It's not unkindness. It's a safety measure, a survival mechanism. That's why I'm vehemently opposing Kaggle providing a platform for anyone associated with the Russian government. Oh, and don't get me wrong, my mother is Russian. So it's not about \"racism\" against Russians.
I understand you, and I didn't want to reply(…), but I just added this comment to clarify one point about Elena Rybakina (to avoid confusion and to make one thing about her more clear, because it is truth): she has naturalized as a Kazakh since 2018, yet her parents and other family members reside in Russia. Elena represents the country that helped her and believed in her dreams (she has not worked for Russia since 2018, even before Russia's invasion of Ukraine), as she has already experienced discrimination from her country of origin because Russia did not choose to support her (the reason was because there were more promising players at the time…).
", "votes": -2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2307148, "author_name": "Alvor", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-17T21:49:28.173000", "content": "To be more precise, 2018 is not before russia's invasion of Ukraine. russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 and has been occupying part of Ukrainian territory since then.
", "votes": 6, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2307150, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-17T21:54:31.500000", "content": "Yes I know : the Crimea
", "votes": -1, "replies": [] } ] } ] }, { "id": 2305789, "author_name": "Igor Lashkov", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-16T23:04:14.707000", "content": "Looks like \"needless to say\" does need to be said: although my country of origin is Russia, I never worked, contracted, received orders, instructions assignments or requests from, or on behalf, of the Russian government, it's officials, representative affiliates or agents.
\nAll my experiences with the RAS were over my academic education, so I simply can't confirm what others claims here.
The grant mentioned is open to any student with outstanding academic achievements and an economic background that would make it impossible to continue the academic education. I am also permanently exempt since childhood from military service due to certain health issues.
", "votes": -11, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2306817, "author_name": "Vladislav Ostankovich", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-17T15:49:45.803000", "content": "@addisonhoward Please review this message, clearly violates all Kaggle guidelines mentioned by you before.
", "votes": -12, "replies": [] }, { "id": 2305870, "author_name": "Igor Lashkov", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-17T00:53:39.760000", "content": "@addisonhoward kindly asked to delete any personal information about me in this discussion (via email).
\n\n", "votes": -7, "replies": [ { "id": 2306809, "author_name": "Eugene Khvedchenya", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-17T15:41:03.670000", "content": "Ask you to edit/redact your comment with any personally identifiable information about Igor (even if the information is publicly available)
\n
Why one should delete anything just because you want? PII is passport or taxpayer number.
\nThere is nothing more that you yourself willingly shared already.
\nBut this information really adds to the full picture. And it puts your not in the good light, isn't it?
Who was this letter addressed to? It has nothing to do with me. Did you share information from private correspondence?Do you have permission to do this? Because I don't see where it is stated.
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 2305858, "author_name": "Vernon Padayachee", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2023-06-17T00:40:29.803000", "content": "Sanctions seem to be political and economic tools, between nation states.
\nThe fields of Knowledge and Ideas are (fundamentally) not, especially for state-of-the-art, I mean seriously, you guys are like PhDs and the best minds on planet right.. more so now in a connected global world, Information/Knowledge/AI is very probably going to show you a whole new other way of looking at things. (Find out how accurately through these funtastic models, with/without poses :)
What a waste to put things like sanctions and political ideologies in the way of human civilisation-level development. It really does seem like other models of organising affairs would do the world a whole lot of good.
\nIn all fairness to participants (whatever colour, race, passport, place of birth, or ethernet port-of-origin of submission, employer, or whatever…) but seriously, … Kaggle should have previous to receiving a participants knowledge-contribution, not allowed them to participate if they were to be 'sanctioned', and more so if participants fairly won host's prizes. After the fact, then just to make things politically correct again, as though saying that some other passport holder can present the knowledge learned (that's of the sanctioned person/s) to the whole world makes everything right. (BTW it seems that even post-presentation, the funds will not get to the person/s because of the sanctions.)
\nAnyway, apart from this:
\nIf we ask ourselves: How can we best pay respect to the lives (family & friends) already lost, or those to be lost?
\nWould it not probably be by trying to make amends for things, even from afar, a Kaggle competition presentation maybe?.. mend bridges, (not necessarily shake hands), maybe show friendship if possible…
\nTo be specific, for the context of this thread, and NOT being personal:
\nWith the goal of contributing positively to the real-world issues; what would the marketing impact to all hosts Google, Kaggle and affected be, of a Ukranian host presenting to a Russian prize winner?
\nI'm sure you guys can write a script to give a probabilities array of answers. Some genius here can do this fast surely ;)
\nDoes progress triumph pride? Can the winner accept a prize, yet forego their winnings? Adjusting for normal human bias, will it work, probably not. Adding superhuman acceptance, it's probably world-changing.
It's amazing to think there are real people putting their lives on (both sides) of a very fine nebulous ideological line, a border that separates worlds, and here the argument is about who presents a technological break-through.
\nGive it a bit of time (a few months, weeks, days, given enough compute power seconds maybe, who knows) and AI is going to show us all a thing or 200. It'll show how much humans really know.
Future seams are borderless
", "votes": -19, "replies": [] } ], "raw_markdown_by_id": { "2305033": "Actually, quite the opposite is true. Let’s go. \n\nFirst, we didn’t “uninvite” or “banned” anyone. Nobody has written Igor or anyone else from his team that they were uninvited, or intended to do so. \n\nIt is that I - personally - hoping for the human understanding - politely asked to change the speaker for the team trying to avoid phycological damage. The point is that I am personally uncomfortable to share the scene with a person, who is very likely works are Russian government institution. We didn’t say or imply that the team or their members would be “banned” from the workshop. \n\n\nNow, what exactly I has written to Remek, not just the small quite Igor shared? Here is my full message.\nIt is me, who is considering (and actually decided) to leave the workshop. Feel the difference. \n\n***\nHi Remek,\n\nI haven’t yet answered Igor yet, and here is why. Given the Russian war in Ukraine, as Ukrainian myself who’s family is suffered from the war, I oppose the presence at the workshop of someone currently employed by the Russian government ( Russian Academy of Sciences). If that would happen I would probably resign from the orgs. \n\nWith all due respect to your sportsmanship and respect for your team members, I am for your team presenting the solution, but I would like to ask you someone else representing your team. \nI hope you would understand me.\n\nBest, Dmytro.\n***\n\n\nI have all reasons to believe that Igor works for Russian Academy of Sciences:\n\n**This part of my original answer about Igor personal details deleted, as requested by Kaggle Team. However, anyone with internet access can find it easily online**. \n\nI don’t see why I should believe his words here more, than official institution website, as well has his own words in LinkedIn or website, or CV.\n\n\nPart of my family had to flee from Russian army during the invasion to Ukraine. That is not politics. \nI stand by my words and would not share the scene with person, who, in addition to manipulated information, now accuses me in racism. ", "2305245": "I agree that noone should be discriminated against based on their country of birth. However, if someone actively contributes to a society that only causes harm, such as Russia today, then I completely understand @oldufo his reasoning.\n\nYou state that the accusations that you are associated with the Russian government are false. But your personal website and CV state that you are affiliated with St. Petersburg Federal Research Center of the **Russian Academy of Sciences**. This clearly contradicts... Could you please clarify? Are you or are you not affiliated with SPC RAS?\n\nEDIT: Some extra information, your last edit of the website was in December 2022, which is not too long ago. Did you leave SPC RAS since then?\n\n\n", "2306254": "We talk only about rules, and official sanctions, but let's also apply common sense and look at things differently. \n\nWhen you compare the situation of @igorlashkov and @oldufo we see two kinds of pain. The pain of one is co from the fact that you were asked not to present at a conference, which is sad and I feel sorry for you. The pain of the other pain is coming from the fact that your home country Ukraine is being invaded and destroyed by Russia, and that Ukrainians are killed in an open invasion.\n\nI don't see anywhere in your statement the support for Ukrainian victims or a clear statement that you condemn the invasion. You just write about \"politics\". Politics is a very flexible term, and Relativism is a very dangerous tool. It is exactly this type of attitude that dictators are happy about - it means the propaganda has done its job well.\n\nSo when @oldufo kindly asks you to not present at a conference, I would accept, and not make a mess about it (just coming from the human side of things).", "2305659": "Hey all,\n\nI’d like to first remind everyone of Kaggle’s [Community Guidelines](https://www.kaggle.com/community-guidelines), specifically wanting to highlight the following:\n1. Discuss and respect ideas. Don’t make it personal.\n2. Harassment and threats are unacceptable.\n3. Bigotry is not allowed.\n4. Keep it professional.\n\nKaggle has always been a place where people from a variety of backgrounds, nationalities, viewpoints and experiences can openly discuss their work. The focus has always been the work itself, not the individual. Our expectations for conduct on the site reflect this, and we do not tolerate violations of these guidelines.\n\nSince the beginning of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Kaggle has always committed to complying with all sanctions requirements and we continue to monitor the latest guidance. All winners and prize recipients (across the world, not just associated with Russia) are subject to official sanctions screening prior to receiving funds- this policy has been in place for many years.\n\nKaggle is honored to be a place where cutting-edge research competitions are hosted, and particularly proud when Kagglers are asked to attend prestigious conferences and present their work alongside competition hosts. Kaggle is not directly involved in conference organization or selection to present, but we work with hosts to ensure that undue conditions are not placed on Kagglers to participate in or win a competition.\n\nWe’ve reached out to the host of the competition and can confirm that the second place team’s invitation to speak at the CVPR workshop has never been revoked, nor have the winners been banned from attending. One of the hosts expressed his discomfort and made a non-binding request that he felt was a flexible compromise: Having a different member of the team represent them at the conference. However it should be noted that if the second place team chooses to not honor the request, the host may remove himself- the winner's invitation is not conditional to this request.\n\nWe will be reaching out directly to both the tagged host and the second place team to ensure conduct here was and remains within our guidelines. We will continue to leave this thread open in the spirit of open, civil discourse, but note that we reserve the right to lock the thread, and even issue account suspensions or bans should we deem that conversation has gone off course. Keep it professional, don’t make it personal. (read: discontinue any investigations into individual work history).\n\nBest,\n\nAddison", "2305324": "I need some time to read this thread, but wanted to confirm immediately that I will review this. I want to thank everyone for remaining professional while discussing a very difficult situation.", "2306452": "To me, this post looks like an attempt at manipulation. I have not seen anywhere that the host had at least some pretensions to your ethnicity or to your country of origin. The facts that caused the rejection of the host are your cooperation with Russian government organisations (RAS) and receiving a grant from the Russian state. You have confirmed these facts. The host could make exactly the same claims against a Pole/Chinese/Nigerian who cooperates with the Russian state. Therefore, trying to present it as racism looks clumsy.\n\nI can look at this situation from a close perspective, because my country of origin is Belarus, which is a co-aggressor in this barbaric war (it's war, not politics). However, I can’t even imagine that I could now cooperate with any Belarusian state organisations and, moreover, receive money from the Belarusian state.", "2305223": "To tell the truth, I don't quite understand why anyone associated with the Russian government is allowed to participate in Kaggle competitions at all. ", "2306675": "It’s not politics, it’s not conflict, it’s war. War that was started by russia. Let’s not forget this simple fact. \n\nIt’s very concerning and disappointing that Kaggle organisers are leaving to the participant ability to accuse people, like nothing happened, demand to remove public data, though it was the participant’s choice to go public, it’s the participant who made very serious, false, untrue accusations of the organizer and there were even no apologies for such outrageous behaviour. ", "2305067": "And since when \"russian\" is a race?", "2307206": "Hey everyone - we're locking this thread down as it's gotten out of hand, removing some comments that are directly attacking individuals, and I've asked that a number of posters edit their post to remove personal information about the OP that was not shared by the OP himself. If those commenters do not comply, we will remove the whole comment (but prefer not to to keep the history of this thread).\n\nKaggle [stands by its support of Ukraine](https://www.kaggle.com/discussions/general/310576) in the war against Russia, but personal attacks and accusations will not be tolerated on the platform.", "2304744": "## Hello everyone here!\n\nThis post is mainly directed to:\n•\tKagglers\n•\tKaggle Staff\n\nI would like to share an alarming situation in which my team (@yamsam, @remekkinas, and @vostankovich) and specifically me found ourselves after this exciting IMC23 competition finished:\n\nOur team (“Current | Resistance | Voltage”) took the 2nd place in this Image Matching Challenge 2023, and we were very pleased of this high result and delighted that our team **got a talk invitation** to the CVPR2023 Workshop.\n\nDmytro @oldufo (one of the IMC23 competition hosts) responded later:\n>Given the Russian war in in Ukraine, as Ukrainian myself whos family is suffered from the war, I oppose the presence at the workshop of someone currently employed by the Russian government (Russian Academy of Sciences).\n\nDmytro took this decision to promote banning me on his own without proof or fact checking, not even contacting me for verification. Needless to say this is a completely false, I feel am facing **discrimination** only due to my national origin.\n\nSome **key background points**:\n•\t**Among the all team members, only I was singled out to be banned from participation in CVPR 2023 Workshop.**\n•\t**Dmytro does not communicate well with the team members, misleads the team leader (me) and other members of our team**, regarding the participation in CVPR 2023 Workshop. He does not respond to emails, but instead talks with only one member of our team and uses him as a “man in the middle”.\n•\t**I feel discriminated and intimidated by the host**. I think this is not aligned with the rules Kaggle and CVPR 2023 rules and guidelines, had I have been warned in the beginning of this competition that Kagglers of Russian origin cannot attend CVPR 2023 Workshop perhaps I would have bypassed such a great competition or call for attention this personal “rule”.\n\nThe official Kaggle community guidelines are published [here](https://www.kaggle.com/community-guidelines):\n\nA few quotes from Kaggle community guidelines:\n“**If you see something that you feel violates these guidelines please bring it to our attention using the flag option on messages and topics.** We take your reports very seriously.”\n\n“**We strive to be a community that welcomes and supports people of all backgrounds and identities.** This includes, but is not limited to, members of any race, ethnicity, culture, national origin, color, immigration status, social and economic class, educational level, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity and expression, age, size, family status, political belief, religion, and mental and physical ability.”\n\nI believe this post will help other Kagglers of different background/identities to avoid similar situations in future. I hope Kaggle Staff will take a look at this situation carefully. In my opinion, Kaggle community should grow based on your skills/knowledge, not just personal feelings and addictions.\n\n@sohier @eduardtrulls @ashleychow @fabiobellavia\n\n@maggiemd\n\nP.S. Kagglers, please, do not talk about politics in this post and be respectful. Please, upvote this discussion if you want to provide support.\n", "2305364": "I don't want to go into this argument but the rules are the rules, you have decided to invite some teams to CVPR and didn't specify that Russian citizens will be excluded at the beginning or even during the competition, hence the team may worked on non commercial solution to enhance their score to participate for CVPR ignoring the prize then it is not your right to ban anyone, therefore i think the organizer should step aside and make this rule listed on the future competitions to avoid such situations. ", "2304809": "Congrats to your team invitation talk in CVPR 2023! I think you should be standing on the stage at the presentation, why not? We just talk about the technical things, improvements, help every expert around the world. Everyone is the same, upvote!", "2304788": "Hard not to talk about politics, since this is a completely political warning to you especially, and us as a team coherently, but I will try my best. There was no fact checking indeed, nobody from our team works for any russian government, this decision seems to me just far-fetched and personal. The CVPR2023 workshop is unique possibility for every kaggler and scientific community as well. Being invited to the talk is very inspirational, but being ignored afterwards is absolutely sad. We worked together as a team and you did many good discoveries during the competition. If we are invited to the workshop I want us all to be there and present our solution. I wish some justice. We spent 3 months devoting ourselves into the comp, now being banned by cooked-up accusations.", "2306956": "It is really unbearable, guys, to see and read hate speech here. I don't want to become involved in this topic (I just found this thread when reading the winning solutions of some recent closed contests...), and I don't want to express my opinion. I just wanted to use this quotation from 2022 Wimbledon Tennis winner Elena Rybakina : \"We didn't choose where to be born\". \nIn a world where we can be anything, we can choose to be kind because everyone we meet (including ourselves) could end up becoming a citizen of a country where the regime (not the people) is the aggressor (and an occupier). What is currently happening in the world amply demonstrates this (all the tensions and changes so far..). However, not everyone has the option of fleeing these regimes or openly condemning them because they risk becoming unsecure themselves by doing so. Finally, lots of love for Ukraine, and I wanted to applaud Kaggle's staff for their professionalism: Good people, you...", "2305789": "Looks like \"needless to say\" does need to be said: although my country of origin is Russia, I never worked, contracted, received orders, instructions assignments or requests from, or on behalf, of the Russian government, it's officials, representative affiliates or agents.\nAll my experiences with the RAS were over my academic education, so I simply can't confirm what others claims here.\n\nThe grant mentioned is open to any student with outstanding academic achievements and an economic background that would make it impossible to continue the academic education. I am also permanently exempt since childhood from military service due to certain health issues.", "2306817": "@addisonhoward Please review this message, clearly violates all Kaggle guidelines mentioned by you before.", "2305870": " @addisonhoward kindly asked to delete any personal information about me in this discussion (via email).\n>Ask you to edit/redact your comment with any personally identifiable information about Igor (even if the information is publicly available)", "2305858": "Sanctions seem to be political and economic tools, between nation states. \nThe fields of Knowledge and Ideas are (fundamentally) not, especially for state-of-the-art, I mean seriously, you guys are like PhDs and the best minds on planet right.. more so now in a connected global world, Information/Knowledge/AI is very probably going to show you a whole new other way of looking at things. (Find out how accurately through these funtastic models, with/without poses :)\n\nWhat a waste to put things like sanctions and political ideologies in the way of human civilisation-level development. It really does seem like other models of organising affairs would do the world a whole lot of good.\n\nIn all fairness to participants (whatever colour, race, passport, place of birth, or ethernet port-of-origin of submission, employer, or whatever...) but seriously, ... Kaggle should have *previous to receiving a participants knowledge-contribution*, not allowed them to participate if they were to be 'sanctioned', and more so if participants fairly won host's prizes. After the fact, then just to make things politically correct again, as though saying that some other passport holder can present the knowledge learned (that's of the sanctioned person/s) to the whole world makes everything right. (BTW it seems that even post-presentation, the funds will not get to the person/s because of the sanctions.)\n\nAnyway, apart from this:\nIf we ask ourselves: How can we best pay respect to the lives (family & friends) already lost, or those to be lost? \nWould it not probably be by trying to make amends for things, even from afar, a Kaggle competition presentation maybe?.. mend bridges, (not necessarily shake hands), maybe show friendship if possible... \nTo be specific, for the context of this thread, and NOT being personal: \nWith the goal of contributing positively to the real-world issues; what would the marketing impact to all hosts Google, Kaggle and affected be, of a Ukranian host presenting to a Russian prize winner? \nI'm sure you guys can write a script to give a probabilities array of answers. Some genius here can do this fast surely ;)\nDoes progress triumph pride? Can the winner accept a prize, yet forego their winnings? Adjusting for normal human bias, will it work, probably not. Adding superhuman acceptance, it's probably world-changing. \n\nIt's amazing to think there are real people putting their lives on (both sides) of a very fine nebulous ideological line, a border that separates worlds, and here the argument is about who presents a technological break-through. \nGive it a bit of time (a few months, weeks, days, given enough compute power seconds maybe, who knows) and AI is going to show us all a thing or 200. It'll show how much humans really know. \n\nFuture seams are borderless" } }