It seems odd to me that something as serious as human trafficking is positioned as a research competition with no medals, points, prize money, or even swag. Winners get to present their findings to a virtual conference, but it sounds like even that is not guaranteed because the conference \"sells out early\".
\nLast year's competition drew only 92 teams. Compare that with the current H&M Fashion Show competition that has nearly 1500 teams and still a month to go.
\nThoughts, explanations?
", "messages": [ { "id": 1734132, "postDate": "2022-03-25T02:48:36.740Z", "content": "It seems odd to me that something as serious as human trafficking is positioned as a research competition with no medals, points, prize money, or even swag. Winners get to present their findings to a virtual conference, but it sounds like even that is not guaranteed because the conference \"sells out early\".
\nLast year's competition drew only 92 teams. Compare that with the current H&M Fashion Show competition that has nearly 1500 teams and still a month to go.
\nThoughts, explanations?
", "rawMarkdown": "It seems odd to me that something as serious as human trafficking is positioned as a research competition with no medals, points, prize money, or even swag. Winners get to present their findings to a virtual conference, but it sounds like even that is not guaranteed because the conference \"sells out early\". \n\nLast year's competition drew only 92 teams. Compare that with the current H&M Fashion Show competition that has nearly 1500 teams and still a month to go. \n\nThoughts, explanations?", "votes": 26 }, { "id": 1734221, "postDate": "2022-03-25T05:28:59.780Z", "content": "Dear @jpmiller
\nIt brings to mind the famous quote by the data scientist Jeff Hammerbacher (Facebook/Cloudera):
\n\n\n\"The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads. That sucks.\"
\n
All the best,
\ncarl
That's true. Do you think that people need more quick results than long-term studies?
", "rawMarkdown": "That's true. Do you think that people need more quick results than long-term studies?", "votes": 1 } ] }, { "id": 2027646, "postDate": "2022-11-13T03:57:03.310Z", "content": "Seems really odd.
", "rawMarkdown": "Seems really odd.", "votes": 2 }, { "id": 1735076, "postDate": "2022-03-25T20:35:54.673Z", "content": "For last year, do we know how many were able to attend and present their work (I don't mean those that already registered to CVPR, but people that registered after submitting their solution)? Did they benefit from the previous competition by publishing their solution in the workshop?
\nI believe there would be some incentives for folks who want to enter academia (e.g. Kagglers trying to apply to PhDs) but it seems that the uncertainty around allowing them to attend (i.e. an online conference selling out) and allowing them to present (\"From this, a subset may be invited to present their results\" which could be 0) might deter some potential academic-oriented folks from participating (especially those that do not have the luxury to pay for a workshop just so they \"may\" present).
\nI understand the organizers might not feel comfortable using clear language because they want to be careful, but I believe certainty around reserving attendance (so even if tickets are sold out, provide at least 1 spot free of charge to one of the winning teams) and presentation (they are guaranteed a presentation if they meet clear conditions) would motivate folks from different background to participate. Ultimately, those things might not be possible if tickets and the review process are managed by CVPR, but if they are, I hope the organizers will consider for the next edition.
", "rawMarkdown": "For last year, do we know how many were able to attend and present their work (I don't mean those that already registered to CVPR, but people that registered after submitting their solution)? Did they benefit from the previous competition by publishing their solution in the workshop?\n\nI believe there would be some incentives for folks who want to enter academia (e.g. Kagglers trying to apply to PhDs) but it seems that the uncertainty around allowing them to attend (i.e. an **online** conference selling out) and allowing them to present (\"From this, a subset *may* be invited to present their results\" which could be 0) might deter some potential academic-oriented folks from participating (especially those that do not have the luxury to pay for a workshop just so they \"may\" present). \n\nI understand the organizers might not feel comfortable using clear language because they want to be careful, but I believe certainty around reserving attendance (so even if tickets are sold out, provide at least 1 spot free of charge to one of the winning teams) and presentation (they are guaranteed a presentation if they meet clear conditions) would motivate folks from different background to participate. Ultimately, those things might not be possible if tickets and the review process are managed by CVPR, but if they are, I hope the organizers will consider for the next edition.", "votes": 4 }, { "id": 1734371, "postDate": "2022-03-25T09:20:43.143Z", "content": "Well none of the FGVC9 competitions has prizes or award points/medals. It was same last year unfortunatelly and it was even suggested that getting some kind of prize (including swag or small < 500 USD prize) would greatly increase the interest in the competition and lead to better results but nothing changed. I found in Herbarium 2022 - FGVC9 comment from the competition host John Park
\n\n\nWe understand that ranking points would motivate more kagglers to the competition. We also want to make sure that your time invested in this competition is worthwhile. Nonetheless, as a part of the FGVC workshop, our competition is more focused on the workshop itself than the Kaggle system. Because of that, our current recognition system makes more sense for those who are coming to CVPR 2022. Let me see if I can pass on your point to the workshop organizers, but please be aware that, unfortunately, no previous FGVC workshop competitions have been involved in competition tiers.
\n
I can imagine they don't want to provide money for the prizes as they don't see the competition as important but maybe they could provide at least some conference swag. And why no points/medals? That might be more tricky, Kaggle might have some criteria what competition can award it. I can image it has to be \"interesting\" to get enough people and well prepared (to avoid things like leaks), and you probably have to pay extra for hosting such a competition.
", "rawMarkdown": "Well none of the FGVC9 competitions has prizes or award points/medals. It was same last year unfortunatelly and it was even suggested that getting some kind of prize (including swag or small < 500 USD prize) would greatly increase the interest in the competition and lead to better results but nothing changed. I found in Herbarium 2022 - FGVC9 [comment](https://www.kaggle.com/competitions/herbarium-2022-fgvc9/discussion/310277) from the competition host John Park\n> We understand that ranking points would motivate more kagglers to the competition. We also want to make sure that your time invested in this competition is worthwhile. Nonetheless, as a part of the FGVC workshop, our competition is more focused on the workshop itself than the Kaggle system. Because of that, our current recognition system makes more sense for those who are coming to CVPR 2022. Let me see if I can pass on your point to the workshop organizers, but please be aware that, unfortunately, no previous FGVC workshop competitions have been involved in competition tiers.\n\nI can imagine they don't want to provide money for the prizes as they don't see the competition as important but maybe they could provide at least some conference swag. And why no points/medals? That might be more tricky, Kaggle might have some criteria what competition can award it. I can image it has to be \"interesting\" to get enough people and well prepared (to avoid things like leaks), and you probably have to pay extra for hosting such a competition.\n", "votes": 4 }, { "id": 1734276, "postDate": "2022-03-25T07:08:56.097Z", "content": "@jpmiller You have brought a grave issue that does calls for response and participation from wide spectrum of masses.
\nThe least that could have been done was to award medals and points and also prizes.
\nHope the concerned shall take time to re-consider their decision in order to make some impact on this global issue which has been with us since time immemorial and a blot on the face of humanity.
", "rawMarkdown": "@jpmiller You have brought a grave issue that does calls for response and participation from wide spectrum of masses.\n\n The least that could have been done was to award medals and points and also prizes. \n\nHope the concerned shall take time to re-consider their decision in order to make some impact on this global issue which has been with us since time immemorial and a blot on the face of humanity.", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 1734205, "postDate": "2022-03-25T05:02:21.437Z", "content": "Hello @jpmiller,
\nTo start with, I agree with you on the issue you're trying to get Kaggle's focus on which is evident from the data you included about the number of teams these competitions drew.
\nMaybe it's not right to be stated but it seems that human lives with liberty and dignity are least recognized now. It's true that there have been competitions about other serious issues just for the knowledge but for all such topics I think at-least Swag or Kudos might have been included.
\nThe explanation with which you'll \"have to\" satisfy yourself at the end is one or another, some of the topics go for just knowledge criteria then why not this one? And a question which might be thrown on your face is, \"on what basis you think it's any more important than the herbarium or other alike topics\" (I know it's lame)
\n\"The most\" genuine explanation can be however that it is for awareness which is the most important aspect of the issue. (If this is the reason I suggest Kaggle to host a competition regards atrocities that Russians have been doing on Ukraine with the dataset of the casualties in many aspects done there)
", "rawMarkdown": "Hello @jpmiller, \n\nTo start with, I agree with you on the issue you're trying to get Kaggle's focus on which is evident from the data you included about the number of teams these competitions drew. \n\nMaybe it's not right to be stated but it seems that human lives with liberty and dignity are least recognized now. It's true that there have been competitions about other serious issues just for the knowledge but for all such topics I think at-least Swag or Kudos might have been included. \n\nThe explanation with which you'll \"have to\" satisfy yourself at the end is one or another, some of the topics go for just knowledge criteria then why not this one? And a question which might be thrown on your face is, \"on what basis you think it's any more important than the herbarium or other alike topics\" (I know it's lame) \n\n\"The most\" genuine explanation can be however that it is for awareness which is the most important aspect of the issue. (If this is the reason I suggest Kaggle to host a competition regards **atrocities that Russians have been doing on Ukraine** with the dataset of the casualties in many aspects done there) ", "votes": 1 } ], "comments": [ { "id": 1734221, "author_name": "Carl McBride Ellis", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2022-03-25T05:28:59.780000", "content": "Dear @jpmiller
\nIt brings to mind the famous quote by the data scientist Jeff Hammerbacher (Facebook/Cloudera):
\n\n\n\"The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads. That sucks.\"
\n
All the best,
\ncarl
That's true. Do you think that people need more quick results than long-term studies?
", "votes": 1, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 2027646, "author_name": "mukhazar ahmad", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2022-11-13T03:57:03.310000", "content": "Seems really odd.
", "votes": 2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 1735076, "author_name": "xhlulu", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2022-03-25T20:35:54.673000", "content": "For last year, do we know how many were able to attend and present their work (I don't mean those that already registered to CVPR, but people that registered after submitting their solution)? Did they benefit from the previous competition by publishing their solution in the workshop?
\nI believe there would be some incentives for folks who want to enter academia (e.g. Kagglers trying to apply to PhDs) but it seems that the uncertainty around allowing them to attend (i.e. an online conference selling out) and allowing them to present (\"From this, a subset may be invited to present their results\" which could be 0) might deter some potential academic-oriented folks from participating (especially those that do not have the luxury to pay for a workshop just so they \"may\" present).
\nI understand the organizers might not feel comfortable using clear language because they want to be careful, but I believe certainty around reserving attendance (so even if tickets are sold out, provide at least 1 spot free of charge to one of the winning teams) and presentation (they are guaranteed a presentation if they meet clear conditions) would motivate folks from different background to participate. Ultimately, those things might not be possible if tickets and the review process are managed by CVPR, but if they are, I hope the organizers will consider for the next edition.
", "votes": 4, "replies": [] }, { "id": 1734371, "author_name": "Michal", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2022-03-25T09:20:43.143000", "content": "Well none of the FGVC9 competitions has prizes or award points/medals. It was same last year unfortunatelly and it was even suggested that getting some kind of prize (including swag or small < 500 USD prize) would greatly increase the interest in the competition and lead to better results but nothing changed. I found in Herbarium 2022 - FGVC9 comment from the competition host John Park
\n\n\nWe understand that ranking points would motivate more kagglers to the competition. We also want to make sure that your time invested in this competition is worthwhile. Nonetheless, as a part of the FGVC workshop, our competition is more focused on the workshop itself than the Kaggle system. Because of that, our current recognition system makes more sense for those who are coming to CVPR 2022. Let me see if I can pass on your point to the workshop organizers, but please be aware that, unfortunately, no previous FGVC workshop competitions have been involved in competition tiers.
\n
I can imagine they don't want to provide money for the prizes as they don't see the competition as important but maybe they could provide at least some conference swag. And why no points/medals? That might be more tricky, Kaggle might have some criteria what competition can award it. I can image it has to be \"interesting\" to get enough people and well prepared (to avoid things like leaks), and you probably have to pay extra for hosting such a competition.
", "votes": 4, "replies": [] }, { "id": 1734276, "author_name": "Gianetan", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2022-03-25T07:08:56.097000", "content": "@jpmiller You have brought a grave issue that does calls for response and participation from wide spectrum of masses.
\nThe least that could have been done was to award medals and points and also prizes.
\nHope the concerned shall take time to re-consider their decision in order to make some impact on this global issue which has been with us since time immemorial and a blot on the face of humanity.
", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 1734205, "author_name": "SJ", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2022-03-25T05:02:21.437000", "content": "Hello @jpmiller,
\nTo start with, I agree with you on the issue you're trying to get Kaggle's focus on which is evident from the data you included about the number of teams these competitions drew.
\nMaybe it's not right to be stated but it seems that human lives with liberty and dignity are least recognized now. It's true that there have been competitions about other serious issues just for the knowledge but for all such topics I think at-least Swag or Kudos might have been included.
\nThe explanation with which you'll \"have to\" satisfy yourself at the end is one or another, some of the topics go for just knowledge criteria then why not this one? And a question which might be thrown on your face is, \"on what basis you think it's any more important than the herbarium or other alike topics\" (I know it's lame)
\n\"The most\" genuine explanation can be however that it is for awareness which is the most important aspect of the issue. (If this is the reason I suggest Kaggle to host a competition regards atrocities that Russians have been doing on Ukraine with the dataset of the casualties in many aspects done there)
", "votes": 1, "replies": [] } ], "raw_markdown_by_id": { "1734132": "It seems odd to me that something as serious as human trafficking is positioned as a research competition with no medals, points, prize money, or even swag. Winners get to present their findings to a virtual conference, but it sounds like even that is not guaranteed because the conference \"sells out early\". \n\nLast year's competition drew only 92 teams. Compare that with the current H&M Fashion Show competition that has nearly 1500 teams and still a month to go. \n\nThoughts, explanations?", "1734221": "Dear @jpmiller \n\nIt brings to mind the famous quote by the data scientist Jeff Hammerbacher (Facebook/Cloudera):\n\n> \"*The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads. That sucks.*\"\n\nAll the best,\ncarl", "2027646": "Seems really odd.", "1735076": "For last year, do we know how many were able to attend and present their work (I don't mean those that already registered to CVPR, but people that registered after submitting their solution)? Did they benefit from the previous competition by publishing their solution in the workshop?\n\nI believe there would be some incentives for folks who want to enter academia (e.g. Kagglers trying to apply to PhDs) but it seems that the uncertainty around allowing them to attend (i.e. an **online** conference selling out) and allowing them to present (\"From this, a subset *may* be invited to present their results\" which could be 0) might deter some potential academic-oriented folks from participating (especially those that do not have the luxury to pay for a workshop just so they \"may\" present). \n\nI understand the organizers might not feel comfortable using clear language because they want to be careful, but I believe certainty around reserving attendance (so even if tickets are sold out, provide at least 1 spot free of charge to one of the winning teams) and presentation (they are guaranteed a presentation if they meet clear conditions) would motivate folks from different background to participate. Ultimately, those things might not be possible if tickets and the review process are managed by CVPR, but if they are, I hope the organizers will consider for the next edition.", "1734371": "Well none of the FGVC9 competitions has prizes or award points/medals. It was same last year unfortunatelly and it was even suggested that getting some kind of prize (including swag or small < 500 USD prize) would greatly increase the interest in the competition and lead to better results but nothing changed. I found in Herbarium 2022 - FGVC9 [comment](https://www.kaggle.com/competitions/herbarium-2022-fgvc9/discussion/310277) from the competition host John Park\n> We understand that ranking points would motivate more kagglers to the competition. We also want to make sure that your time invested in this competition is worthwhile. Nonetheless, as a part of the FGVC workshop, our competition is more focused on the workshop itself than the Kaggle system. Because of that, our current recognition system makes more sense for those who are coming to CVPR 2022. Let me see if I can pass on your point to the workshop organizers, but please be aware that, unfortunately, no previous FGVC workshop competitions have been involved in competition tiers.\n\nI can imagine they don't want to provide money for the prizes as they don't see the competition as important but maybe they could provide at least some conference swag. And why no points/medals? That might be more tricky, Kaggle might have some criteria what competition can award it. I can image it has to be \"interesting\" to get enough people and well prepared (to avoid things like leaks), and you probably have to pay extra for hosting such a competition.\n", "1734276": "@jpmiller You have brought a grave issue that does calls for response and participation from wide spectrum of masses.\n\n The least that could have been done was to award medals and points and also prizes. \n\nHope the concerned shall take time to re-consider their decision in order to make some impact on this global issue which has been with us since time immemorial and a blot on the face of humanity.", "1734205": "Hello @jpmiller, \n\nTo start with, I agree with you on the issue you're trying to get Kaggle's focus on which is evident from the data you included about the number of teams these competitions drew. \n\nMaybe it's not right to be stated but it seems that human lives with liberty and dignity are least recognized now. It's true that there have been competitions about other serious issues just for the knowledge but for all such topics I think at-least Swag or Kudos might have been included. \n\nThe explanation with which you'll \"have to\" satisfy yourself at the end is one or another, some of the topics go for just knowledge criteria then why not this one? And a question which might be thrown on your face is, \"on what basis you think it's any more important than the herbarium or other alike topics\" (I know it's lame) \n\n\"The most\" genuine explanation can be however that it is for awareness which is the most important aspect of the issue. (If this is the reason I suggest Kaggle to host a competition regards **atrocities that Russians have been doing on Ukraine** with the dataset of the casualties in many aspects done there) " } }