{
  "id": 2477,
  "title": "Why bother with amount2 if we're just predicting rank?",
  "url": "/competitions/Raising-Money-to-Fund-an-Organizational-Mission/discussion/2477",
  "author_name": "",
  "post_date": "2012-08-28T12:17:29.827Z",
  "votes": null,
  "comment_count": 3,
  "views": 2206,
  "content": "<p>The contest suggests we're predicting an amount donated -- well, a small transformation thereof. But the evaluation metric suggests that these values are just used to rank predictions. The top 75% are taken, and their actual donations inform the score of\r\n the solution.</p>\r\n<p>If so, then is it actually necessary to predict an amount donated? Seems like any function that ranks donors by expected amount donated is sufficient. That's good news for some approaches.</p>\r\n<p>But then I wonder why we bother with amount2, which is a transformation of amount which would not affect this ordering -- and if only ordering matters in the solution, then there would be no real point in computing amount2 vs just using amount.</p>",
  "messages": [
    {
      "id": "13557",
      "postDate": "08/28/2012 12:17:29",
      "content": "<p>The contest suggests we're predicting an amount donated -- well, a small transformation thereof. But the evaluation metric suggests that these values are just used to rank predictions. The top 75% are taken, and their actual donations inform the score of\r\n the solution.</p>\r\n<p>If so, then is it actually necessary to predict an amount donated? Seems like any function that ranks donors by expected amount donated is sufficient. That's good news for some approaches.</p>\r\n<p>But then I wonder why we bother with amount2, which is a transformation of amount which would not affect this ordering -- and if only ordering matters in the solution, then there would be no real point in computing amount2 vs just using amount.</p>",
      "rawMarkdown": "",
      "votes": null
    },
    {
      "id": "13558",
      "postDate": "08/28/2012 12:46:33",
      "content": "<p>Predicted amount donated is the product of (Predicted Response Rate * Predicted amount of Donation). The goal isn't to predict the donation amount\r\n<em>among those who make a donation</em>, but rather to predict the amount a recipient of a piece of mail is likely to donate.\r\n</p>\r\n<p>The transformation skews the ranking, such that a population that has 5% probability of response and $10 average donation will fall behind a population with 1% and $50. This is because the second group is a better group of donors.\r\n</p>",
      "rawMarkdown": "",
      "votes": null
    },
    {
      "id": "13604",
      "postDate": "08/29/2012 13:00:56",
      "content": "<p>Right, the ranking is by expected value -- well a slight tweak of that. I understand the difference between amount and amount2 now.</p>\r\n<p>I suppose I'm just also confirming that one doesn't actually have to predict amount2 in theory, just something that ranks the same way, because the scoring is not actually driven off the actual value of amount2, but just who the top 75% donors are by this\r\n ranking.</p>",
      "rawMarkdown": "",
      "votes": null
    },
    {
      "id": "13606",
      "postDate": "08/29/2012 13:13:08",
      "content": "<p>Correct - we're trying to rank prospective donors by the amount we expect them to donate. A &quot;perfect&quot; prediction captures all donors in the &quot;top 75%,&quot; and achieves the maximum possible score of ~0.86.\r\n</p>",
      "rawMarkdown": "",
      "votes": null
    }
  ],
  "comments": [
    {
      "id": 13558,
      "author_name": "fundraising",
      "author_url": "",
      "post_date": "08/28/2012 12:46:33",
      "content": "<p>Predicted amount donated is the product of (Predicted Response Rate * Predicted amount of Donation). The goal isn't to predict the donation amount\r\n<em>among those who make a donation</em>, but rather to predict the amount a recipient of a piece of mail is likely to donate.\r\n</p>\r\n<p>The transformation skews the ranking, such that a population that has 5% probability of response and $10 average donation will fall behind a population with 1% and $50. This is because the second group is a better group of donors.\r\n</p>",
      "votes": null,
      "replies": []
    },
    {
      "id": 13604,
      "author_name": "",
      "author_url": "",
      "post_date": "08/29/2012 13:00:56",
      "content": "<p>Right, the ranking is by expected value -- well a slight tweak of that. I understand the difference between amount and amount2 now.</p>\r\n<p>I suppose I'm just also confirming that one doesn't actually have to predict amount2 in theory, just something that ranks the same way, because the scoring is not actually driven off the actual value of amount2, but just who the top 75% donors are by this\r\n ranking.</p>",
      "votes": null,
      "replies": []
    },
    {
      "id": 13606,
      "author_name": "fundraising",
      "author_url": "",
      "post_date": "08/29/2012 13:13:08",
      "content": "<p>Correct - we're trying to rank prospective donors by the amount we expect them to donate. A &quot;perfect&quot; prediction captures all donors in the &quot;top 75%,&quot; and achieves the maximum possible score of ~0.86.\r\n</p>",
      "votes": null,
      "replies": []
    }
  ],
  "raw_markdown_by_id": {
    "13557": "",
    "13558": "",
    "13604": "",
    "13606": ""
  },
  "source": "meta"
}